Seeking Sacred Sunni Knowledge

Imam Ash-Shafi'i on Sufism / Tasawwuf


Sunnis are bombarded with negative pseudo-salafi propoganda all over the internet. It should not surprise anyone then that such propoganda stretches its rejected rhetoric to Imam Ash-Shafi’i. Read any “salafi” site’s article on “Sufism” and you will assuredly find the following quote from Imam Ash-Shafi’i:

“If a person exercised Sufism (Tasawafa) at the beginning of the day, he does not come to Dhuhur except an idiot.” [Talbees Iblees]. – ((as quoted by the satanic site “Allaahuakbar” ))

 Shaykh Gibril Haddad states in response to this quote:

Abu Nu`aym narrated with his chain in Hilyat al-Awliya’ that al-Shafi`i said: “If a person did NOT exercise Sufism at the beginning of the day, he would not reach Zuhr except an idiot.” And this is true, as shown by the detractors of Sufism till our time. (( ))

He also states in a later article:

A contrary version of the latter saying reads: “A rational man does not become a S.ûfî except he reaches noon a dolt!”[5] Al-Bayhaqî narrates this from al-H.âkim, from Abû Muh.ammad Ja`far ibn Muh.ammad ibn al-H.ârith,from al-H.asan ibn Muh.ammad ibn al-D.ah.h.âk (IbnBah.r), both of unknown reliability. For obvious reasons, this is the preferred version of the detractors of Sufis. {5 footnote: Narrated by al-Bayhaqî, Manâqib (2:207) cf. Ibn al-Jawzî, S.ifat al-S.afwa (1:25) and Talbîs Iblîs (1985 ed. p. 447) and Ibn Taymiyya in his Istiqâma (p. 414).} (( ))

The athar alluded to by Shaykh Gibril Haddad is found in Hilyatul Awliyaa’ as follows:

حدثنا محمد بن عبد الرحمن حدثني أبو الحسن بن القتات، حدثنا محمد بن أبي يحيى، حدثنا يونس بن عبد الأعلى، قال: سمعت الشافعي يقول: لولا أن رجلا عاقلا تصوف لم يأت الظهر حتى يصير أحمق.

“If a rational man does not become a Sufi he does not reach noon except he is a dolt!”

Commenting Shaykh Gibril states, “Abû Nu`aym narrates this from Muh.ammad ibn `Abd al-Rah.mân ibn al-Fad.l, from Abû al-H.asan [Ah.mad ibn Muh.ammad ibn al-H.ârith] ibn al-Qattât [al-Mis.rî], from the thiqa Muh.ammad ibn Abî Yah.yâ, from the thiqa Imâm Yûnus ibn `Abdal-A`lâ, from the Imâm.”

So let not the pseudo-salafis on paltalk and elsewhere call Shaykh Gibril Haddad a “Liar”, and “one who can not be trusted in knowledge!” For it is as he has said.

Adding to the list of positive statements of Imam Ash-Shafi’i regarding Tasawwuf is the following:

صحبت الصوفية فلم استفد منهم سوى حرفين، وفي رواية سوى ثلاث كلمات: قولهم: الوقت سيف إن لم تقطعه قطعك. وقولهم: نفسك إن لم تشغلها بالحق شغلتك بالباطل. وقولهم: العدم عصمة

“I accompanied the Sufis for ten years and benefited from them but from two sayings [and in another report three sayings]: their statement that time is as a sword: if you do not cut it, it cuts you, and their statement that deprivation is immunity.”

[The reported third states: “their statement: if your soul does not keep busy with truth it will keep you busy with batil.”]

Shaykh Gibril states (I have added the arabic) commenting on this athar: “Narrated from Muh.ammad ibn Muh.ammad ibn Idrîs al-Shâfi`î by al-Bayhaqî in Manâqib al-Shâfi`î (2:208) cf. Ibn al-Qayyim in Madârij al-Sâlikîn (3:128) and al-Jawâb al-Kâfî (p. 208-209) and al-Suyût.î in تأييد الحقيقة العلية Ta’yîd al-H.aqîqat al-`Aliyya (p. 15)”

Adding again to his statements Imam ‘Ajluni reports that Imam Ash-Shafi’i said,

حبب إلي من دنياكم ثلاث: ترك التكلف، وعشرة الخلق بالتلطف، والاقتداء بطريق أهل التصوف

[source:1089 كشف الخفاء ومزيل الالباس عما اشتهر من الأحاديث عل ألسنة الناس]

“Three things in this world have been made lovely to me: avoiding affectation, treating people kindly, and abiding by the way of the people of tasawwuf!”

In the non-pseudo-salafi publication of the Diwan of Imam Ash-Shafi’i we find:

فقيها وصوفيا فكن ليس واحدا        فإني   وحق   الله   إياك     أنصح

فذلك قاس  لم يذق قلبه  تقى         وهذا جهول كيف ذو الجهل يصلح

Faqîhan wa-s.ufiyyan fakun laysa wâh.idan
fa’innî wa-h.aqqillâhi iyyâka ans.ah.u
Fadhâlika qâsin lam yadhuq qalbuhu tuqan
wahâdhâ jahûlun kayfa dhûl-jahli yas.luh.u ((for the arabic go here: ))

“Be both a jurisprudent and a s.ûfî – never just one of the two.
Truly, by the Divine Right, I am advising you sincerely!
For the former is hardened, his heart tastes no Godwariness,
While the latter is ignorant – of what use is the ignorant?” ((translated by Shaykh Gibril here: ))

So let the enemies of tasawwuf digest on these words! May Allah bless our Sayyid Muhammad, his family, companions, and his followers Amin.

44 Responses to “Imam Ash-Shafi'i on Sufism / Tasawwuf”

  1. Abul Layth says:

    Another great article written by Shaykh Gibril on Tasawwuf and Imam Ash-Shafi’i is here:

    I intend to elaborate more on one of the issues he mentions:

    As for the objections of the slanderers of Sufis invoking Ibn al-Jawzi’s exhortative work Talbis iblis in which he attributes to al-Shafi`i sayings detrimental to Sufis, or sayings of Imam Ahmad detrimental to Imam al-Harith al-Muhasibi: as Dhahabi said: “We call Ibn al-Jawzi hafiz (hadith memorizer) in deference to the profusion of his writings, not to his scholarliness.” That is: He was not reliable when it came to reporting narrations.

    Specifically the attacks on Imam Al-Muhaasibi. Ibn Kathir includes him in his tabaqat of the Shafi’is and has some very positive statements regarding him and his tasawwuf. I will be scanning the page soon insha’allah.

    -Abul Layth

  2. M. Abū Zayd says:

    So, what is the authenticity of this report:

    Al-Īmām Mālik (may Allāh have mercy on him) was asked about people who are called as-Suffiyah who after eating would sing and dance.
    Then Īmām Mālik (May Allāh have mercy on him) replied, “Are they insane?” then it was said to him, “no.” Then he said, “are they boys?” then it was said to him, “no. They are old and intelligent men.” Īmām Mālik replied, “We did not hear that anyone from the people of Al-islām did like this”

  3. Abul Layth says:

    Q. al-Qadhi ‘Iyadh is known to be a great sunni scholar, yet quiet recently a salafi brother pointed out that in his book “Tadreeb al-Madarik”, al-Qadhi quotes a narration from Imam Maalik who rejected sufism. This confused me deeply and i wanted to know if you could clarify this issue for me please.

    A. Wa `alaykum as-Salam,

    Certain opponents of tasawwuf adduce two reports, one chainless and one weak-chained, originating in a man from the city of Naseebeen (Iraq) who has been critiqued as munkar al-hadith or ‘disclaimed in his narrations’ to claim that Imam Malik derided group dhikr:

    1. Al-Tinnisi said: We were sitting with Malik with his companions around him. A man from the people of Nasibin said, ‘We have some people who go by the name of Sufis. They eat a lot then they start [chanting] poems (qasa’id), after which they stand up and start dancing.’ Malik said, ‘Are they boys (sibyan)?’ He said no. Malik said, ‘Are they insane?’ He said, ‘No, they are old men (mashayikh) and other than that, and they are mature and sane (`uqala’).’ Malik said, ‘I never heard that any of the people of Islam do this.’ The man said to him, ‘Indeed, they do! They eat, then they stand up and start dancing intensively (dawa’ib), and some of them slap their heads, and some their faces.’ Malik started laughing then went into his house. His companions said to the man, ‘You were, O man, ill luck (mash’um) for our friend [Malik]. We have been sitting with him thirty-odd years and never saw him laugh except today.’

    This is narrated without chain by al-Qadi `Iyad. in Tartib al-Madarik (2:53-54).

    2. `Abd al-Malik ibn Ziyad al-Nasibi said: ‘We were with Malik when I mentioned to him Sufis in our city. I said to him that they wear fancy Yemenite clothes, and do such and such. He replied, ‘Woe to you! Are they Muslims?’ He then laughed until he lay on his back. Some of his companions said to me, ‘What is this? We have not seen more trouble (fitna) caused to the Shaykh than you, for we never saw him laugh!?’

    Narrated by al-Khallal in al-Hathth `ala al-Tijara wal-Sina`a wal-`Amal (ed. Abu Ghudda, §97) with a weak chain because of `Abd al-Malik ibn Zyad al-Nasibi who is ‘condemned in his narrations and untrustworthy’ (munkar al-hadith, ghayr thiqa) according to al-Azdi as per Ibn al-Jawzi in al-Du`af?’ wal-Matrukin (1:149) while Ibn Hibban in his Thiqat (8:390) said he reports oddities from Malik.

    Content-wise, neither of the above reports shows unambiguous condemnation of group dhikr but only that some people who passed for Sufis in the Imam’s time reportedly committed certain childish excesses or irrational breaches of decorum. The reports only show that Imam Malik found the story amusing. The delator seems obsessed by the ‘eating and dancing’ which he mentions twice as if afraid Malik didn’t hear it the first time. There is also on the part of Malik’s circle a clear disapproval of the delator who is apparently perceived as an interloper. And Allah knows best.

    GF Haddad

  4. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Is the reason that we only find random quotes regarding the science/practice of tasawwuf by the four imams because it was still in the process of being summed up and ‘categorized’ like Usul fiqh, Science of Hadeeth, etc..

  5. Ibrahim al-Maliki says:

    It is sad that the opponents of tasawwuf/sufism (and orthodox Sunni Islam for that matter) are trying to “hijack” the Four Imams. Actually, it is ridiculous.

    Imam Malik explicitly enjoined tasawwuf as a duty of scholars in his statement:

    “He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true.”

    It is related by the muhaddith Ahmad Zarruq (d. 899), the hafiz `Ali al-Qari al-Harawi (d. 1014), the muhaddiths `Ali ibn Ahmad al `Adawi (d. 1190) and Ibn `Ajiba (d. 1224), and others.

  6. Mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Note that quote concerning imam shafii rahimahullah learning from the sufis is in madarij as salikeen. This is significant because ibn qayyim rahimahullah is quoted much by rejectors of Sufism. It seems that both shaykh ul islam ibn taymiyah rahimahullah and his noble student rahimahullah were true sufis.

    Akhi abul layth btw I cannot view the article on “Surah al mulk being recited in grave” something like that. there is no article. Is this just happening to me?

  7. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Actually Brother Ibrahim,
    I think both Salafis and so called Sufis try to “hijack” the four imams. Why do I say that about sufis too? Because when Sufis quote statements from the four imams such as the ones by Imam Malik and Imam Shafi’i in Abu Layth’s article, they assume that the four imams were praising tasawwuf as it came to be long after they (four imams) were gone.
    In the time of the four imams, what was know as “tasawwuf” was true tazkiyat-un-nafs, or purification of the soul. Compare what you would find in the books and statement/teachings of Ibn al-Mubarak, Ibn Dinar, Ibrahim ibn Ad-ham, al-Fudhayl ibn ‘Iyaadh, Harith Muhasibi, al-Junaid, Sahl bin Abdillah Tustari, etc

    This was the real deal when talking about “travelling on the path to Allah”.
    It was a Tasawwuf the was REALLY based on Qur’an and Sunnah (not just a claim).

    Before concepts and customs were integrated from the religions/cultures of the East and West.

    Before the coming of statements such as “Ana al-Haqq” or “Ma fil jubbati illa Allah” (There’s no one in this cloak but Allah), or “Subhanee, Subhanee. Ma a’dhama sha’nee”

    Before the composing of poetic lines such as
    “And the dog and the pig are nothing but our lord;
    And Allah is but a monk in a monastery”

    Before you had “Sheikhs” telling their murids “Whenever you are in distress, just think of me and say ‘madad ya sheikhi’ and I’ll be there.”

    Before graves and tombs where the headquarters and hangouts of murids.

    So these Imams may be praising Tasawwuf and advising in favor of learning it…but on what basis do you think they knew of what many of tasawwuf-claimers became.

  8. Abul Layth says:

    Akhi abul layth btw I cannot view the article on “Surah al mulk being recited in grave” something like that. there is no article. Is this just happening to me?

    I owe ya one – ok at least some du’aa! For some strange reason some XML code was placed into the post causing a site malfunction. So, not only have I fixed the post, but now IE users can view the home page properly – Alhamdulillah!

    To Ibn Taymiyya:

    Your comment is full of conjecture and unproven attempts of trying to make a distinction between the early Sufis and the later sufis. No proof have you – save your own opinion!

    In the time of the four imams, what was know as “tasawwuf” was true tazkiyat-un-nafs, or purification of the soul.

    It is still that. In fact, it is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. It is jihaad against the nafs with established litanies and performed sunan! It is fighting anger, animosity, and the sins of the tongue and heart!

    Compare what you would find in the books and statement/teachings of Ibn al-Mubarak, Ibn Dinar, Ibrahim ibn Ad-ham, al-Fudhayl ibn ‘Iyaadh, Harith Muhasibi, al-Junaid, Sahl bin Abdillah Tustari, etc

    This is an interesting claim coming from you. Why then did Ibn Al-Jawzi and the anti Sufic movement attack Muhaasibi? Why is it that we find all of these fabricated quotes against the Sufis of old? What is even more ridiculous about your claim is that the early Sufis did not write books on tasawwuf. It was a mureed – Shaykh study passed on the donning of the “khirqah” and verbal training as well as physical training.

    As for the poetry of certain individuals, it is your own fault that you attribute such madness to the Sufis. Maybe you could tell us where Suyuti, Ibn Abdus-Salam, Ibn ‘Ataa’illah, Abul Hasan, Abul ‘Abbas, Abu Madyan and the A’immah approve of such statements! Furthermore, we respond to you with the criterion of Imam As-Suyuti – just as he did to the likes of you in his time:

    “What is transmitted and attributed to the [Sufi] Shaykhs – may Allah be pleased with them – if it contradicts external knowledge, bears various possibilities,

    A) First we do not concede its attribution to them until it is established as authentic.

    B) Second, once authenticity is established, it is pausible that it is has a figurative meaning. If it doesn’t, then one says ‘perhaps it has a figurative meaning for the people of INTERNAL knowledge and the Knowers (’aarifeen) of Allah Almighty.

    C) Third, this may have come to them in a state of spiritual intoxication and distraction, and the lawfully spiritual intoxicant is not taken to task for he is not held responsible in such a state.

    Holding a negative view about them after all these points is a sign of deprivation of success. We seek Allah ’s refuge.” [Tanbih Al-Ghabiy]

    You have no proof for your claims. In fact, it is the Imams of Tasawwuf in our times that have a direct chain back to the A’immah of the Sufis of old. They have preserved their way and they strive to implement such.

    Before graves and tombs where the headquarters and hangouts of murids.

    And in your ignorance do you continue! Graves and tombs hangouts? Indeed! Such men should pride themselves on fulfilling the Sunnah of the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) and the way of the Salaf!

    I wrote elsewhere:

    Imam An-Nawawi states that it is loved that one visit the graves of the Muslims especially the people who were known for of spiritual virtue (fadl) and goodness (khayr). He states that one should recite much Qur’an as well as perform ritual dhikr. He also states that du’aa (supplication) should be made for the people of the grave one is visiting, the rest of those around him, and of the Muslims. In fact he wrote an entire chapter regarding the different words and actions one should say or perform at the grave.
    [See Al-Adhkaar page 235 Editor: Suba’y Hamza Haakimi] see: for proof that it was custom of the Nabi to visit graves at night.

    Or what, oh “Ibn Taymiyya”, do you say of the Sahabi Abu Ayyub Al-Ansari taking the grave of the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) as a “Hang out”?

    See: where he places his face on the grave of the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam! What of the recorded actions of At-Tabarani? Ibn Khuzaymah? etc? Simply pick up a volume of Hilyatul-Awliya and you will see the scholars visiting the awliyaa’s graves all the time!

    It is those mureeds who are the Sunnah, not you. It is they who know that visiting the graves is Sunnah and mustahabb, whereas you and your pseudo-salafi inclined comrades detest the Sunnah and his noble actions.

    “And whoever rejects my sunnah, is not from me!”

    You will not get away with your pseudo-salafi bida’ah here without tasting the sweetness of the actions of the Sahaba and awliyaa’!

  9. Ibn Taymiyya says:


  10. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Why didn’t my post come up?

  11. Ahl As-Sunnah says:

    Imam Malik explicitly enjoined tasawwuf as a duty of scholars in his statement:

    [“He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true.”]

    what is the authenticity of this?
    Does it have a chain?

  12. anon says:

    Abu Layth, your statement that the tasawwuf of the early zuhhaad is one and the same as those who came after them or like the Sufis today is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen. You might as well say that the Shi’a of today are exactly upon what Ali, Hasan and Husayn( radhi’Allahu ‘anhum ajma’een) were. You should visit the Indian subcontinent and watch what the Barelwis(who are defended by your pir, Haddad) do at the graves and them come tell that all tasawwuf is one and the same!
    When are you going to translate Ahmad Siddiq al-Ghumari’s “Ihya’a al-Quboor..”, raising the graves!

  13. Ebrahim says:

    Another ignorant comment above. Anon since you know so much about barelwis in India, can you give us a single fatwa from a ‘barelwi’ scholar that allows unislamic behaviour in the sufi dergaahs of the subcontinent. I have one fatwa of Imam Ahmed Reza Khan Barelwi( whom the barelwis love and folllow) about visits to graves of sufis and I havent seen anything anti shariah in it. So since you claim something to the contrary so plz back up your claim with proof. Also many stupid wahabis show pics or videos of hindus going to tombs of awliya Allah and bowing as proof against sufis of india lol,if you doubt me then go to mumbai or any other sufi dergah in India, you will see hindus in great numbers visiting and even bowing to it. Also I do know that some ignorant muslims think that bowing to graves in resepct is fine, but thats their own wrong understanding not something that they got from a so called brelwi scholar’s book.

  14. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Brailwees worship the prophet PBUH.
    They also believe that Allah created everything from the “Nur of Muhammad”, basing this on weak or maudu’ fabricated hadeeths and building a cult-like understanding around it. Oh, and they sit around and sing all day.

  15. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Sorry brother Abu Layth but until you bring proof that the early Sufis believed in Wahdat al wujud, and acted like maniacs during their ‘wajd’ and made shadd al rihaal to shrines upon which they decorated with ornaments and made tawassul in the form of “ya sheikh so and so” etc.. the fact stands that the Zuhhaad/sufis of yesterday aren’t the (MAJORITY of) sufis today.
    I have a feeling (by experience) that by reading this you are going to take it that I’m making some blanket statement or total condemnation of tasawwuf even though you really know what I’m saying.

  16. Ebrahim says:

    “Brailwees worship the prophet PBUH”

    Wow, so your takfiri self is out finally, it must have been hard for you to refrain from takfir for so long. By the way, my question was to anon not you mr ibn tayimiya so i am waiting for anon to reply with the fatwa from brelwi scholars.

    “Oh, and they sit around and sing all day” LOL, another typical wahabi comment which deserves a good laugh.Really if you want to be taken seriously with your lines here then you must try and bring a better wahabi statement than that. Keep trying ibn tayimiya, all the best.

  17. Zakariya says:

    So till ibn taymiah sufis were ‘right” because ibn taymiah himself was a sufi of qadri tariqah ! And all sufis of present time are wrong , because Albani did not join any tariqah? And if thats what you wahabis believe that sufis of today are on a wrong path but the previous ones were good, then whats stopping you guys from being true sufi followers?

  18. Abū Zayd says:

    It is amazing how much truth is being concealed here in this website. This brother Abu Layth is accusing salafis of cutting and pasting while he is guilty of it himself–Abu Layth, stay away from GF Hadad’s website and come up with your own research man or else stop accusing people of what you are guilty of. ‘Allhumdullahi, I’ve seen my share of sufism back in my country, and I am one-hundred percent sure that it has nothing to do with the Sharee’ah of Muhammad (Sallalahu ‘Alayhi Wa Salam) and whosoever coins up some weak fabrications claiming that it is, then, let him prepare his place in the hellfire for indeed he has lied against our Prophet.

    On the side note: Sufism is only big here in West now…they have completely lost it in many of the Islamic countries because of their poor scholarship and their vast amount of efforts of consuming the people’s wealth. On top of that, they are now being supported by the kuffar to spread their falsehood, if you want to know what I mean refer to the research done by RAND called: “Civil Democratic Islam” at

  19. Abul Layth says:


    You never cease to waste bytes on When you ever mention something of substance I may send you some oreos with cookies. Until then, which may be never, we will laugh at your comments of no substance.

    Ibn Tay:

    Originally I wrote a post in response to your non-sense, then I had an epiphany! How is it that a literalist could understand a nomenclature that utilizes metaphor, allegory, and deep thought? I do not think it is possible, for Ahlul-Thaahir can not correctly understand the science of the baatin save with intense study and guidance from one well versed in the science. Because of this, I will not entertain such nonsense spewing from the pipes of ignoramuses in the sufic tradition. When you folk of the najdi persuasion choose intellectual honesty over deceit and careless research, Sunnis may take your words with some substance. Until then, ask a qualified Sufi for an explanation instead of receiving second hand literalistic propaganda!

    Abu Zayd:

    Give us something worth responding to before writing emotional dross.

    Shaykh Haddad is far more qualified in the sciences of Islam than any of your najdi “scholars”. Furthermore, what I have done here is not only parrot his research, but bring forth some of his references with asaneed, and I have checked his references for myself. There have been a few times now that I have caught mistakes from the Shaykh and brought them to his attention, and he has corrected them. It is up to you now, if you are truthful and objective, to find fault with the research presented above!

    The challenge is there, now stop running your gob and become objective.


    Abul Layth

    Reminder: Stay on Topic

  20. Ahl As-Sunnah says:

    There have been a few times now that I have caught mistakes from the Shaykh and brought them to his attention, and he has corrected them. It is up to you now, if you are truthful and objective, to find fault with the research presented above!

    so it is ok for Haddad to make mistakes but not for a translator of Darus Salam to make one?

    aren’t they all human?

    have you actually contacted darus salam about their mistranslation in sunan Tirmidhi before posting that topic of yours regarding it?

  21. mustafa says:

    as-salaamu alaykum,

    Akhi I would love it if you made an article on Ibn qayyim rahimahullah and Sufism. You could use quotes from Madarij as salikeen.

  22. anon says:

    What is your opinion of the Barelwis, Abu Layth?

  23. Abul Layth says:

    so it is ok for Haddad to make mistakes but not for a translator of Darus Salam to make one?

    aren’t they all human?

    have you actually contacted darus salam about their mistranslation in sunan Tirmidhi before posting that topic of yours regarding it?

    The mistranslation of Dar-us-Salam is just that, a mistranslation. I did not bash them in the article, or call refuse to accept their repentance, I simply exposed a mistranslation. That is all.

    Furthermore, I do not know the contact information for pseudo-salafi Dar-us-salam. Why would I want to assist their evil endeavor anyhow? They adulterated the canonical texts with footnotes and opinions unbecoming of objective publishers. They clearly have an agenda, and such an agenda can be seen in the footnote of the hadith of Uthman ibn Hunayf!

    You feel free to email those enemies of the Sunnah, cooperating in their sin and transgression, as we continue to expose their evil departure from the way of Ahlus Sunnah!

  24. Ibn Taymiyya says:

    Subhan Allah. Abu Layth’s replies rarely ever have any weight to them. Look at how most of his sentences are attacks that he tries to make sound sophisticated so that the “follow me” crowd of fans on this site continue to be in awe.
    What the brother said of Sufism “dying out” in the Muslim world is true.

  25. Abul Layth says:

    Ibn Tay:

    Like always, no substance.

    There are “follow me” crowds on SI? I didn’t know that. Maybe you could point them out to me.

    This site is about seeking ilm, and no it is not the wahhabist propoganda definition of “ilm”. So of course it is of distaste to you, and of course, you will continue on your dark path of making claims with no proof. It is after the all the pseudo salafi way!

    Stay on topic or be banned or just have your comments deleted lol. Either way it doesn’t matter to me.


  26. abdulatif says:

    assalamuailikum, i am a revert to islam from the Dominican Republic and it is very sad to see muslims indulge in these type of debates. Abu Layth, let hijo taymiyaah think what he wants to think and remember this is the best thing they can do since everything else is bidah they have to entertain themselves in this manner. may Allah guide us and protect us from deviating from the path of rasul s.a.w and the love for him and his family and the inheritors of his message, may Allah gives us a happy ending Amin.

  27. mustafa says:

    wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

    abdul latif mashallah, My wife is also a revert from the Demonican republic, Inshaallah Allaah will perfect your imaan akhi


  28. Ibn Ahmad says:

    As-Salamu Alaikum y bienbenido a SI amigo Abdul-Latif. Que maravilloso que has visitado a nosotros. Es la misma historia todos los dias amigo. Es como lo dice el Corán: “Hay una enfermedad en sus corazones.”

    Jazak Allahu Khairan Amigo


  29. Abdul Latif says:

    Ma sha’Allah Mustafa to hear that your wife is Dominican, it really brings a lot of joy to my wife is also dominican we have to kids muhammad hamzah and hajar salima. wa alikum salam mi hermano ibn Ahmad tengo esta pagina en mi favorites siempre la visito pero es la primera vez que dejo un comentario(jejeje)es maravilloso conocer que otro latino visita la pagina mi hermano mi email es it will be a honor to received mail from both of you ibn ahmad and mustafa and lets ask Allah for sabr when we encounter certain people. love you guys for the sake of Allah and can count with a brother here in the D.R.

  30. Abdul Latif says:

    abdul76l@yahoo made a mistake sorry.

  31. Admin says:

    ^^the above link has scans pertaining to this issue, though it is in dutch the scans are in arabic.

  32. BrothaHernandez says:

    As-Salaam Alaykum

    Here is an interesting video which accounts for the difference between Shari’a compliant Sufism vs. the false Sufism.

  33. Hussain20 says:

    “I accompanied the Sufis for ten years”

    Where in the arabic does Imam Shafi (Rahimullah) say this?

    I don’t see it in the arabic text :o

  34. Abul Layth says:

    Such is found in another way of reporting it.

    But you are right, in what I quoted above it is not in the arabic.

    jazakum Allahu Khairan

  35. Ahl As-Sunnah says:

    Such is found in another way of reporting it.

    please show us the other way that includes the “ten years”, with the source.

  36. alarifth says:

    I have come across an interesting article (Sufism and its Misfortunes: The Four Imams By Abdalla S. Alothman) published on
    There the author states that ‘sufis has tempered with what Imam suyuti’s words’. Below I’ve given the some extracts from the above article…

    The Sufis thump two traditions which they relate to Imam Al-Shaf’i:

    1. “Al-hafiz al-Suyuti relates in Ta’yid al-haqiqa al-`aliyya that Imam al-Shafi`i said:

    I accompanied the Sufis and received from them but three words: their statement that time is a sword: if you do not cut it, it cuts you; their statement that if you do not keep your ego busy with truth it will keep you busy with falsehood; their statement that deprivation is immunity.”

    The Problems:
    1. As usual, the Sufis have tampered with the translation to cover up a problem.
    The tradition in Arabic, directly from the book appears below:
    “قال الشافعي رضي لله عنه: صحبت الصوفية فلم أستفد منهم سوى حرفين, وفي رواية:
    سوى ثلاث كلمات قولهم: الوقت كالسيف إن لم تقطعه قطعك. وقولهم: نفسك إن لم تشغلها
    بالحق شغلتك بالباطل. وقولهم : العدم عصمة

    Alsiyooti didn’t say that Al-Shaf’i said: “… and received” as the Sufis translate the tradition, he said: “fa lam astafid…” meaning, “I did not benefit from them except three words:…”
    That doesn’t look like Imam Al-Shaf’I is praising the Sufis, but it looks like he is criticizing them because there is nothing beneficial to learn from them except those three words.

    Of course this tradition comes in more than one narration, one of them begins with: “I accompanied the Sufis for ten years, and I have not benefitted from them except three words…” (Reported by ibn Alqayyim and others.)

    Sorry, but that doesn’t look like praising, but totally the opposite. Not to mention that the tradition lacks a supporting chain which makes it devious and worthy of rejection. However, we will pass by authentic traditions – in a while – with proper supporting chains.(continues…)

    Can you please clarify me on the issue?? i dont know arabic.

  37. Abu Layth says:

    What a dolt this man is! You can see that Shaykh Gibril’s translation does not have “and received”…but even if it did that is the meaning of the athar, as “suhbat” means to accompany someone and by extension ‘receive’ something from them.

    This can be understood from the hadith of the Nabi ‘alayhis salam who likened a friend to either an individual who sells perfume or a blacksmith, so no matter what the case the human is going to “receive” something from them; good or bad.

    Let this ignoramus also have a look at the more authentic narration:

    حدثنا محمد بن عبد الرحمن حدثني أبو الحسن بن القتات، حدثنا محمد بن أبي يحيى، حدثنا يونس بن عبد الأعلى، قال: سمعت الشافعي يقول: لولا أن رجلا عاقلا تصوف لم يأت الظهر حتى يصير أحمق.
    “If a rational man does not become a Sufi he does not reach noon except he is a dolt!”

    Abu Layth

  38. alarifth says:

    @ Abu Layth:

    Jazakallah Khayran for spending your precious time to respond me! May Allah give you good health & extended life to serve this Ummah!

    I reckon its better to provide the source of hadith since the salafis are always skeptical. (If u can include the authenticity also).

  39. Abu Huzaifa says:

    I must say debate on the issues of Tasawwuf will be never ending. You will always find those who oppose it as well as its supporters. The truth is every one us is a servant of Allah and as a servant our ultimate goal is to worship the lord in the best possible manner creating a link (Nisba- Elaqah) with Allah. In the Quran there are many verses commanding us to do the Dhikr, in fact the whole creation is constantly glorifying him. One of the missions of the prophet was to purify the soul (Tazkiya) and he also commanded us to do various forms of Dhikr.
    So lets call those who assist you in rectifying your souls the people of Tazkiya.

  40. Ahmad Abdul Haqq says:

    As salaamu aleikum wa rahmatul-lah!

    Ajji Abdul Latif! Masha’Al-lah! Que bien verte por aqui mi hermnano!

    When will these najdis realize that falsehood has no place with Haqq?

    Subhan’Allah! Here in the Dominican Republic we stand firm on traditional Islam. Ash`ariyya, Maturidiyya, Madhhabiyya, Sufiyya!

    May Allah give us the tawfiq and sabr to maintain in defending the right and forbidding the wrong in a time of soo much fitna. Amin.

    May Allah’s blessings be with all those who are doing the work on this site to defend Haqq. Amin!


  41. adeeb says:

    They call Shaykh Gibril as a Liar or something
    Naudhubillaahi azza wa jal.

  42. al bareylwi says:

    bismillahi rahmaani rahim
    wassalaatu wasssalaam alyka yaa rasool il kareem
    asalaamu alykum warahmatullah wa baraakaatuhu
    i have been reading a lot from your site “seeking ilm” and found a lot good and learnt a lot and this is a great site, but on this particular page i have discovered that the najadiyya or the “counterfiet salafiyaa” have been accusing “bareylwis” of things that are not only not found in the shareeah but have become a joke unto my own self.
    firstly bareyli is the name of the place in “uttar pradesh” in india and durng the late 1800s and the begining of the 1900s the imam ahmad ridaa khaan bareylwi(literally meaning”of bareyli”) came into the scene because the pseudo salafi or the wahaabi movement had reached its peak after shah ismaail shaheed dehlavi (the grandson of our master shaah wali allah muhaddith dehlavi. it seems that shah ismaail had deviated so much that his “fatwaas” and sayings even made his pious granfather a kaafir !!!) had influenced many through his books and thus inspired even the deobandi school to make a lot of “erroneous statements” that imam ahmad ridaa khaan opposed and placed fatwaas against and he also opposed the pseudo salafi or the wahaabi najadiyah groups as most of the aaemaa of the four scools of thought have done since their advent. but his opposition made him the bulls eye for the people against him who began to look for “mistakes” anywhere and everywhere he could make and thus wrote several books agaisnt him. maashaallah all are answered. the “ahle hadeeth” of india are actually the wahaabis …it was those who opposed him and called him a “mubtaadi”(innovater)..inspite of the fact that the then ulemaa of the shaafiee fiqh and the other two (he himself being hanafi) placed fatwaas against the ahle hadith for denying taqleed and also for commiting blasphemies against the prophet salllalahu alyhi wasallam.
    The bareylwi is no new “school” or “school of thought” ….its only the hanafi school in its real form. Bareylwis visit graves of the awliyaa only for barakah …that is also proved from imam ibraahim harbi, imam shaafie himself, imam ibnul jawzi, imam ibnul hibban, imam ibnul khuzaymaah and many more. They also are performers of tawassul just like shaafies and hanbalis. They don’t “dance and sing all day around” as some people have pointed out. This is one f the best laughs i have had in sometime when i read this particular thing. Whenever imam ahmad ridaa khan gave a fatwwaa, he gave it by quoting the great aaemaa. He quotes “radd al muhtaar ..” and durr al mukhtaar and “fath al qadeer” when giving a verdict on a particular shareee thing. He didn’t form his “own school of thought”. I have read books against him and it saddens me to read so many lies against a person whom we know and remember as a great great lover of the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam who , because of utmost love of the prophet named himself “abdul Mustafa” and listened patiently to the abuses of the najadiyya at his keeping this name and then answered so satisfactorily that none after that raised an issue.
    Some people said “bareylwis worship the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam”. I ask “who has given anyone authority to form such decisions about someone or something when he or she doesn’t even know what is what ?” my dear friend , the bareylwis never worship the prophet alyhi salaatu wassalaam. We rather love him and respect him. Of course our extent of loving and respecting him; by some people is looked upon as “associating partners with ALLAH”. But afterall we even love and respect ALLAH infinitely more than that as we are not the ones who say that ALLAH can have “hudood” according to his knowledge and we don’t appoint a form or body to HIM , glory be to HIM. And we also don’t appoint a direction to him. Never did any bareylwi aalim “worship” the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam. I would say “haatu burhaana kum inn kuntum saadiqeen”. You are behaving as if bareylwis are some new sect like that “bahaai sect” and the “ahmadi or qaadiyaani sect”. the things that imam ahmad ridaa khan said were even said by many ulemaa before. The saying of “yaa Muhammad” was prescribed by none other than imam bukhari in his “aadaab al mufraad” under the chapter name “what to say when someone has a cramp in the leg”and by imam nawawi in “adhkar” and imam shawkaani in “tuhfat az zaakireen”. Al waseelah and tawassul was vehemently supported by imam shawkaani rehmatullahi alyhi. Visiting the graves is a sign of piety. Seeking blessings with the graves is even related by imam ibnul jawzi in sifaawaat as safwaa and imam dhahabhi also relates many thing in his “siyyaar alam an nubula”. “aainu yaa ibbaadallah” was prescribed imam shawkaani in his “tuhfat az zaakireen” and imam nawawi prescribes “ahbisu yaa ibaadallah” in his “al adhkaar”. They are almost equivalent to “almaddad yaa sheikh” !!. am i saying this or is imam ahmad ridaa khan saying this?. None!!. It is the ulema who are mutafaqqun alyh …in whom the bareylwis , deobandis, ahle hadeeth, wahaabiyya najadiyya “salafiyyah” , and the canonical schools believe and rely upon.!!!. will you then say the same things as you prescribe towards imam ahmad ridaa khan bareylwi to them also????(!!!).it was imam malik as related by aadhi iyaadh and others who prescribed to turn to the prophets grave while performing his ziyaarah ,,,it was he who said “turn to him and ask for his shafaa at”. It was imam ahmad bin hanbal who said “let him make the prophet sallalhu alyhi wasallam his waseelah in every duaa”. It was no less than allama ibnul tayimiyyah in his majmu al fatawa who says that the worlds were created for the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam.!!! It was imam bayhaiqi who narrates the ahaadith of the prophet being “noor” in his book “dalai un nubuwaa” about which imam dhabahi said “take from it as it has nothing in it except good” as related by the contemporary maaliki scholar “Muhammad bin alawi al maaliki al makki” in his “mafaahim al yajibu an tus hah”(i don’t know the authencity of this report). Then whom are you against and what are you talking about. May ALLAH guide the ones who look at things partially and are prejudiced.

    My dear friends, you have been discussing tasawwuff. People have criticised it and people have supported it. Imam nawawi rahmatullahi alyhi has rightly said that the people of tasawwuff remain with the sunnah (or something to that effect). The real sufiyya were and are the ones who keep the sunnah alive. Our master “sayyidi qudwatul awliyaa shaykh tahir alaawud din al qaadri al gilaani” rahmatullahi alyhi once said “maarifah(knowledge of ALLAH) is attained by following the sunnah”. The man of bidah is not a sufi and we condemn him. It seems that the ignorant people quote some imams to fullfill their needs of condemning tasawwuf and sufiyyaa .It is true that such statements do exist. But one should understand that they are surely against the “a type of tasawwuff” and a “type of sufis”. Allama ibnul tayimiyyah in his fatwa book gave a separate part for tasawuff fatwaas only that came out as a separate book later on namely “at tasawuff wasssufiyyaa” in which allama praises the sufis of the like “Ibrahim al adham , sulaymaan ad daaraani, maaruf al karkhi, abu yazid bistaami, aljunayd baghdaadi” etc. And at the same time, towards the end he says that “tasawwuff has good things in it as well as bad ones”.(!!!) this clearly , to any person who has a hint of logic implies that allama ibnul tayimiyyah is opposing the tasawuff that was prevalent at that time where some things that looked questionable to him. And my friends , it was abu yazid bistaami who said “there is none in my cloak except ALLAH”, at the same time allama ibnul tayimiyyah likes him and praises him and also tried to defend him at instances where his statements seem a bit “too high and far”!!!…
    We follow such shuyookh and shuyookh like our shaykh imam abdul qaader jeelani or who is even known as “al gawthul aadham”. He lived in the 500 hijrees and i believe allama even praised him in his books. It was he who said to his mureeds “whenever you need help, call unto me”!!!. (although i myself don’t do that i not being a qaadri). This thing has been narrated by more than three imams and his mureeds in their books (i can give the references from direct sources if anyone on this site asks me to give within a couple of days).
    Tasawwuff is in reality a science of tazkiyyah and zuhd and faqr. A sufi thus is a person who is the best of muslims around him, and a zaahid and a person who is purified and is a faqir. He is not the one who “dances like insane”(although the wajd is a state of ecstacy and no one except ALLAH can control it. It happens naturally and involantarilty when one experiences closeness to the rabb of all the things) and he is not the one “who eats a lot”,infact sufis are known to eat less and spend much time in worship… they are not the ones who say “annal haqq”(although again this is a state of ecstacy and no less than allama ibnul tayimiyyah has explained this state of “fanaa” and has said that it is “allowed” and the person saying so cannot be caught because this is state of unmindfulness!!!!)…they are rather the people from whom the smell of the prophets sunnah comes and who swim in the cool and beautifully refreshing waters of eeman and ihsaan, who worship ALLAH as if they see HIM, glory be to him the most exalted, who love the prophet very much and are always craving to see him.
    My dear friends , let us follow the sufiya of the past only if you insist. Please follow the ways of sayyidi abdul qaader jeelani or imam al hasan al basri or raabiah al basri. But atleast do follow.
    I personally believe that our deen shouldn’t be devided in the proportions of “tasawuuff, shareeat and kalaam” as all are the same and compliment each other. Our master allama doctor Muhammad iqbal rahmatullahi alyhi had said “tasawuf , shareeat , kalaam,,,,, are all the priests of the idols of ajam. The reality has been lost by us in something trivial . this ummah is lost in stories.”
    Sayyid as saadaat, noorul mawjoodat fakhrul kaainaat imam ul aaemaa, siraaj al awliyaa, mahboobe rabbani maulana Muhammad Mustafa sallalahu alyhi wasallam didn’t teach us to divide and fight. So the only advice i can give our salafi brothers is
    1)read the complete majmu al fataawaa of allama ibnul tayimiyyah and then come to discuss about tasawuff
    2)read allama ibn ul qayyim al jawjees “madaarij..” and also ibn rajabs books.
    3)read the biographies of great sufis written by allama ibn jawzi and also “safaawaat as safwaa”.
    And for all the “ANTI BARELWIS” please read the fataawaa books of imam ahmad rida khan. Here are some books for a beginning: “fataawaa al ridwiyaah” “sunnat al aneeqah fi fatawaa al afreeqiyyah” and all. Please form your decisions after having KNOWLEDGE.
    My dear brothers and sisters, ALLAH is a merciful LORD and the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam is very kind towards his followers and lovers. He sallalahu alyhi wasallam is closer to us that our own lives. Dear friends, neither ae we in need of “fighting” in the matter of the deen of ALLAH but we only even if necessary should try to be polite and warm hearted and cool minded during a discussion and we need not form any judgements about things that we have no knowledge of ; as we saw some people doing so abou “bareylwis”.

  43. hamad says:

    I’ve not come across any Salafi who wantonly opposes Sufism, what they attack and refute is the fraudulent Sufi movements who have evolved from the Zuhd and ihsan and Tazkiya tun-Nufoos of the Salaf to the innovations and shirk and pantheistic ideas which many khalafi Sufis fell into.

  44. Qasim says:


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