you posted some nice commnets and inspiring words on August 30, 2008 at 4:44 am!

May Allah reward you!

I do not know the Shaykh so I cannot speak regarding him. However, it is an obligation to continue amr bil ma’ruf wa nahi ‘an al munkar un – commanding of good and forbidding of evil – until the last hour. The heretics and their allies must be exposed in order for the mass of Muslims to be warned of their distortions regarding our deen. If such was not done throughout history, the Sunnah would not be accessible to us to this day.

There is certainly no doubt that the end of times is near, however, and the Muslims have believed this for 1500 years , yet such did not stop them from warning the Muslims from the deviants that existed within their era – whether it be the batiniyyah, mu’tazilah, muqatiliyyah – which have re-emerged in our times vomitting their tashbih and tajsim and branding it the ‘way of the salaf’ with their forked tongues.

If one stops and reflects on the past 150 years – the demise of the khalifah and how it occurred – the re-emergence of the Ibn taymiyyite doctrines innovated by him , I think they will see that the Sunnis were slow to act against the deviations of our time, and as a result such deviations were allowed to flourish for too long…

waiting for response

what are all your opinions about the scholar maulana imran hosein of trinidad and tobago. because he says it is futile and wasting of time to discuss petty issues. instead we should identify the real enemy of muslims(US/Israel/European Alliance) and fight aginst them. also we should prepare ourselves to face the dajjal.

Eagerly awaiting respone
salaam

Brother Abul Layth, I’ll admit it is news to me that the Athari Aqidah difers from now and then. My understanding, although you’ve got me thinking, was that the “the meaning” was known, but the how was not. Based on the well known incident with Imam Malik that is always mentioned.

Currently I am studying Ash’ari aqidah. Do you have any books or works on scholars that compare the differences between Athari, now and then? JazakAllahu Khayr

ma salam

The Salafis are full of contradictions. The Salafis say that they are against taqlid, but they follow their scholars (or rather non-scholars, such as Albani) more strictly than we follow the mujtahid mutlaqs of our maddhahib. Everything that they say they do, along with their catchy slogans, such as “the Quran and the sunnah only” are only that–slogans. They follow neither the Quran nor the Sunnah.

The athari creed is the creed of affirmation with tafwid of the real meaning to Allah ta’ala. It is not saying Allah is LITERALLY – in the “real” sense of the word (as said by Ibn Uthaymin) – sitting (istiqrr) upon the throne, or that he “rose above the throne ‘in person’” http://seekingilm.com/archives/119 .

What the pseudo-salafis are upon today is not the athari creed!

was-salam,
Abul Layth

Dear Brother Confused Salafi,

Brother Ibn Tamiyyah (the one on this forum, not the historical figure) summed this up nicely when he said:

“The Aqeedah of the Ash’ariyyah
The Aqeedah of the Maturidiyyah
The Aqeedah of the Athariyyah/Hanabila.

Now this last category is the “predecessor’ of the aqida of today’s salafis. Maybe in our times some of the formerly less-popular views in the Athari aqeeda have gained more popularity among the atharis/Hanbalis/ Salafis, but the point is..they have a source. Let’s all just respect each other.”

This was wall said, jazakAllahu Khayr.

If you learn Aqidah, then please learn it from the source. For example, when I first learned about Ash’ary Aqidah, I learned it from a Salafi source, which did not contain the most accurate description. I do not appreciate as some even said “They (the Ash’ariyyah took their knowledge from the Greek homosexuals.” Such vulgar statements are not acceptable in our Deen.

Likewise, when I learned what some of the Ash’ary said about the Athariyyah, it was not very accurate. Athariyah does not say “Allah is a deity with limbs sitting on a chair above the sky.” How can one say that when everyone knows “Laya kamithlihi shay” (Nothing is similar to Him).

One should study and appreciate the great works of these scholars WITHOUT discrediting or pitting one against the other and without misconstruing the points of others simply to make one seem correct.

If a person says “I fear my Lord above me” – is this wrong?
Allah said when describing the believers:

“They fear their Lord above them.” (Qur’an 16:50)

Or if someone says “Allah from above the seven heavens blessed me.” – is this wrong? Zainab (the wife of the Prophet [p]) said:

“It is only your parents who gave you in marriage to the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, while it is Allah Who gave me in marriage to him from above the seven heavens.” (Bukhari)

Likewise, if someone says “I fear my Lord who encompasses me from every direction!” – is this wrong? Allah said:

“To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.” (Qur’an 2:115)

The point here is that the Ash’ariyyah, the Maturidiyyah, and the
Athariyyah all have arguments to express their points and they are all acceptable. Only Allah knows the reality of the unseen.

Therefore, my sincere advice is to caution from falling into the trap of disunity over these issues.

Shaikh Faraz Rabbani summed this up beautifully:

“As for the criticism that some major Hanbalis held beliefs that smacked of anthropomorphism ['representation of God as having human form or traits'], this is true but unfair: it is also true that some Shafiis had such beliefs, and some were Mutazili rationalists; the same is also true of the Hanafi school. However, what matters is the general case (al-`ibra li’l ghalib), and the overwhelming majority of Hanbalis had sound beliefs, as is the case in the other schools.

It is from the unfortunate attacks against the edifice of Sunni Islam that people pick on minor cases or rare historical incidents (like the occasional periods of inter-madhhab dispute) and try to generalize these into a history of discord whose existence is solely in their creative imaginations. Reality, for those who seek it, is that there was a remarkable unity that was based on a foundation of acceptance of difference of opinion within the limits; and a wisdom and pragmatism that avoided fitna with those whose ways diverged from the sound path of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and his inheritors, the scholars of Sunni Islam.”

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4856&CATE=24

Finally, my sincere apologizes as I know this thread was not initially about this subject.