Asad Habib, I have on numerous occassions stated who my Shaykh(s) are and were. I care not to go over it again and I have stated this MANY of time to you. So move on, and if you can’t, then that is your own problem and not mine.

As for your claim of “400″ years after the salaf, then such an implication that you are trying is simply baatil. We showed, within the article itself, that the Sahaba (r) of Medinah were performing Qabd. Imam Al-Bunani, as well, quoted several of the early Malikis doing qabd, as well as holding such to be mustahabb.

The early Malikis performed qabd much to your dismay, and the bottom line is that you are just going to have to get over it! I suspect that you probably can’t because you see through the lens you WANT to see through and refuse to look at the statements and proofs of those who stand against you.

As for quoting Abdul Qadir “As-Sufi”, then he needs to repent for his disdain of the Sunnah, his lying on Niqaab, and his unfounded – and no doubt – Satanic attempt in calling the Muslimaat to remove it. Funny how you claim that me not telling you who I studied with is “deception”, yet you quote a man who has attempted to deceive the Muslim masses regarding Niqaab!

The proofs stand against you, and may allah guide me and you to what is right, Amin. May Allah bless our beloved Sayyid Muhammad, his companions, family, and followers.

Myself Sidi, Alhamdulilah I teached Logic for 10 years then took up Maliki fiqh, so my queries on this peice were perhaps inherently based/biased (choose which one you think is appropriate) on this grounding.

“Fear of Allah is the door to Real Knowledge”

Shaykh Abdal Qadir as Sufi al Maliki.

Walaykum asalam warahmatullahi wabarakata’uh.

I have more than spent my proper share in my own responses to the issue both in writing on this site (scroll above) and in person to Abu Layth himself. His views still being what they, I remain committed to my own view that sadl was the more dominant of the two, although both of them should be counted as among the Sunnah with there being no dislike in either if adopted for the sake holding fast to the Sunnah in age of ignorance and discord.

To even the score, I suggested we post up the articles showing the proofs for sadl from lamppostproductions.com and got permission from them to do so, but was discouraged by difficulties in formatting and my attention was swept away by the many other dragons in my life.

As for what Abu Layth does with his site: it’s his site, Sidi. I’m just mostly here to proofread and reviews things and keep track of comments. I know a lot of other sites that are managed more dishonestly. We try to allow every honest comment, but that doesn’t mean we have to respond to all of them. Afterall, we’re both still in college.

Amin to your du’ahs, Sidi, and may you continue to keep us in your prayers and perfect our many faults, errors, and shortcomings. Wasalam.

I trust Allah has kept you in the best health and imaan. Adhab and Ahklaaq are the cornerstone of our Deen you are correct.

Seeing as we are on the subject perhaps you can explain why your contemporary has free reign to edit/delete articles when people question where he got his knowledge from? Living breathing shuyook or otherwise? unfortunately, he deleted these innocent questions. Is this adhab?

Seeing as all the Maliki shuyook we are talking about, none of them were Musannaffs like Abu Layth (people who take their deen from books and not living breathing shuyook) isnt this relevant?

Finally, if the above still remains unanswered then please can you (or someone) answer me for the 3rd time in this thread this relevant point.

Taking an imam not from the Salaf, in this case the Maliki Imam Baghdadi(ra), whom came 400yrs after the Companions. Then painting his view of Qabd, as the Sunnah of Madinah.

Is this not deception?

But seeing as most people forget/brush/ignore this point, we miss this gross error. Read the peice again it is saying exactly that. Somehow signfying the sadl wasnt the accepted practise of madinah. We know innovations came in after the glorious period and then everything became mixed up. Exactly when this Imam came to Madinah. Note im not saying it is haram or anything crazy like this, just pointing out a subtle fact.

So as for Qabd, i do it also sometimes in nafila or sunnah but do majority Sadl. its not even an issue for me.

I only get involved when something is painted different colours to what is actually their.

Jazakhalla and i look forward to an impeccable reply based on adhab and respect, as you so rightly pointed out to the previous brother.

masalam

”
‘…[certainly there is the] report of Mutarrif and Ibn Al-Majishun from Malik maintaing the recommendation of Qabd just as is in Al-Wadihah. And Al-Muwwaq [?] also mentioned the report from Ash-hab from Imam Malik that to place the right upon the left in Salah is Mustahabb in the Fard as well as the Naafilah. In the ‘Wadihah’ is the report [also] from Ibn Habib from Imam Malik that he hated the abandonment of Qabd in the faridah and Nafilah.”

Imam Ahmad Al-’Alawi states, “And the book Al-Wadihah is from the reports of Ibn Habib, the companion of Imam Malik.”

[page 20]

We all need to get our nafus straightened out once in a while. In the _Bidayat ul Mutjahid_ of Ibn Rush (Averroes the Commentator), available in English as _The Distinguished Jurist’s Primer_ it says:

“…[T]he jurists of Kufa, Abu Hanifa, Sufyan al-Thawri, and all their other jurists, said that the worshipper is not to raise his hands, except at the time of the first takbir. This is also a narration of Ibn Qasim from Malik.

Al-Shafi’i, Ahmad [ibn Hanbal], Abu ‘Ubayd, Abu Thawri, the majority of Ahl al-Hadith, and the Zahirites upheld the hukm of raising the hands at the time of the first takbir, and at the time of bowing, and while rising up from bowing. *This is also related from Malik*, except that it is an obligation according to some jurists, while it is a sunna in Malik’s view. Some of the Ahl al-Hadith upheld the raising of the hands at time of prostration and on rising from it.”

Later in the same chapter it says that Malik’s view in conformity with the practice of Medina was that of Ibn Mas’ud (ie that of Abu Hanifa and the Kufans) regarding raising the hands. It also clarifies Malik’s view that the level the hands should be raised is up to the shoulders.

Interestingly perhaps the strongest hadith in favour of raf’ al-yadayn is narrated by Ibn ‘Umar, perhaps the sahaba with the greatest influence on the Maliki madhab. You can still chill out though, if you read Sh. Kabbani’s refutations of Albani, you can find quoted in there that one of the proofs against raf’ al-yadayn is paradoxically another hadith from Ibn ‘Umar. I’m not sure I’ve heard Abu Layth explain that one yet.

Wasalam.

Rafael

Barak’Allahu feek akhi, everything you have said is the truth, jezak’Allah khairan. I need to learn the proper manners of discussion, the old aggressive pseudo “salafi” is still in me, and it needs to be wiped out insha’Allah with time. You are right, many Maliki Mujtahids preferred qabd (although not the majority), such as the great Qadi Iyadh, rahimullah. Both sadl and qabd are sunna. It just bothered me when brother Abu Layth said; “who cares about your experiences”.. I found that to be rude, and I reacted. I am happy to follow the Maliki Madhab (yes you are right, it is a very broad Madhab.. many opinions within the school, and I love that).

Thank you so much for waking me up, barak’Allahu feek times a million. And thats interesting how you said that Imam Malik rahimullah had an opinion that sadl yadain is sunna, can you please show me the reference? Have there been any notable Maliki scholars who have preferred sadl yadain? And when you say sadl yadain, you mean before going into raku and rising from it right?

salamu alaikum, Abd al-Wahid

Sidi, from one Maliki to another I would not say that qadb is a weak position in the madhab when several mutjahids within the madhab expressed preference for it. Even among many of Imam Malik’s direct students there were several voices that advocated it as a Sunnah. Sidi Ahmed Zarruq (one of my all-time favourite Malikis) seems to have advocated that both sadl and qadb were equally valid practices from the Sunnah and that one has a choice between them. I don’t think he would have advocated that position if he thought the qadb was a weak position. It’s even recorded that rafa’ul yadain (raising the hands) as a Sunnah according to one narration by Imam Malik (you can look it up in Ibn Rushd’s Bidayat ul Mutjahid). That is all to say that the Maliki madhab is very, very broad. SO perhaps the question is not where Abu Layth gets off preaching to people outside his madhab, but where you get off refusing to listen. This discussion about educating the mind, not the ego.

And just so you know, I practice sadl myself as Abu Layth can most certainly tell you, but I get annoyed when people refuse to engage an honest debate with etiquette, even if that person agrees with me. We Malikis don’t even stick our fingers in our ears to give the adhan, so why do so in an open discussion?

Wasalam,

Rafael

wa salam

Your repeating of the views we are trying to refute help little in the discussion considering we have already responded to your contentions.

was-Salam