Seeking Sacred Sunni Knowledge

The Shadhili Way of Dhikr of the Supreme Name: Demonstrated by Shaykh Nuh Keller (Audio)

New Si Basmalah

In the audio file attached (mp3, part of the Lahore Suhba of 2007), Shaykh Nuh Keller is asked by new mureeds of the Shadhili Tariqah to demonstrate how the Shadhilis do dhikr of the Supreme name:الله Allah.

Download here

If you cannot listen to the lecture for whatever reason then here is the upshot:

  • The shaadhili tariqah is in reality a qaadiri branch. The qaadiris believe in dhikr that is jahri (aloud). This too is implemented by the Shaadhiliyyah.
  • The dhikr consists of 66 times, the best time to do it is before going to sleep at night, though can be done at other times if one is unable to do it before sleeping.
  • If one does not miss a single day of doing this for fourty days then one increases the dhikr to 100 times.
  • After the Khalwah, it is any number of times that one wants, but prior to the khalwah the dhikr is done only 100 times at most.
  • One should do it aloud: الّ All (holding the lam properly with shaddah) and elongating the اااااااااااaaaaaaaaaaaaa then ending with the final ه ha – sounding it out.
  • One focuses on Allah ta’alaa, or the highest states of the heart: love, uns, hayba, awe and dread, closeness with Allah ta’alaa. One concentrates with the heart, and the brain is just the servant.

[This is all demonstrated on the audio file by Shaykh Nuh himself for those interested.]

107 Responses to “The Shadhili Way of Dhikr of the Supreme Name: Demonstrated by Shaykh Nuh Keller (Audio)”

  1. Abu emaan says:

    Im sorry but it really reminds me of buddism. Maybe its because my ruh is corrupted :(

  2. Abul Layth says:

    It reminds you of buddhism to recite Allah’s name repeatedly? Since when do the buddhists recite Ism Atheem? Since when do they do dhikr for the pleasure of Allah; seeking the divine majesty ?

  3. Mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Perhaps the brother means the sound. When Shaykh Nuh Hafidullah was teaching how to say it, the sound may remind someone of the gong (the bell that is rang before meditation of some buddhist). I know the sound because its on my meditation dvds. But I do not think this dhikr has a negetive trait or a resemblance trait of the buddhist. Dhikr is dhikr and this is just a beautiful way of making dhikr that is truely soothing.

    I listened to the small piece of audio and when i went to sleep I had a dream that my wife and I were doing this form of dhikr. When i recited it Allaaaaaah prolonging it my stomach in the dream felt like a big vibration erupted in it. What is strange is i also get this feeling when meditating and but this was very powerful. Could of just been a silly dream but I like dreams like that.

    I wouldnt mind try ing this dhikr.

  4. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong. isn’t it bid’ah to do dhikr with such specific method (i.e. 66x forty day then 100x) unless otherwised stated by Quran and sunnah?

  5. Ibn Umer says:

    Sidi Mustafa, please don’t try the dhikr.
    It’s the dhikr that’s done at the khalwa, after which the ijaza is given for one to be able to do it mutlaqan.

    But unless and until you have that ijaza I would *STRONGLY* recommend you NOT try it on your own.

    The power of this dhikr is such that one might misuse it to his detriment. A person here left the tariqa and decided he could ‘do it on his own’. He lost his mind and he is currently in jail or a mental asylum.
    The dhikr has strong psycho-physiological effects, and I cannot stress enough that it should not be done on one’s own.

    To Ahmad: yes, it is a bid’a in the sense that the Prophet [s] did not do this exact dhikr in this exact number. But it is a bid’a hasana. Refer to Imam Ibn Rajab Al-Hanbali’s explanation of this type of bid’a.
    Also, if bid’a hasana’s of this sort are bad, then some of the people among whom is blame: Ibn Umer, Imam ‘Ata’, Salman Al-Farisi, Ibn Taymiyya, Abu Hurayra……

  6. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    so raising hands to make dua collectively after prayer. does it fall under bid’a hasan?

  7. Ibn Umer says:

    It is fine in the Hanafi madhhab, although I myself (Maliki) might not do it.

    We, of the 4 madhhabs, tolerate and deem valid the other madhahib’s ijtihads even if we don’t adopt them ourselves.
    I won’t wack a Shafi’i on the head for repeating his wudu because he touched the female cashier’s hand when handing the change.
    Nor would I smack a Hanbali for wiping over non-leather socks.

    May Allah cure us of ta’assub – blind partisanship.

    Akhi Ahmad, I strongly suggest you read the following book. It answers any and all questions you might have, better than I or anyone else here could answer: http://frzdqi.net/mylib/open.php?cat=3&book=15

  8. Talut says:

    Salaam alaikum

    I strongly recommend that noone try any recommended dhikr or wird of a Sheikh unless he has idhn to do so. To do so without idhn is like knocking on the king’s door without an invitation: Unless he really takes exception to you, your request will be at best ignored and at worst will cost you your head.
    The Shadhili dhikr is beautiful. And the Dalaa’il al Khayarat (which I have idhn for but cannot give it) is the most beautiful thing I’ve ever read/recited. Anyone who rejects the Shadhilis are depriving themselves of one of the most profound, extant Emanations of Allah’s (SWT)Jamal.
    What is interesting, and which I have asserted to some in the past, is that Sheikh Nuh admits that the Tariqah is a Qadiri branch.
    This is something about which the Tijaniyya will have to bring forth proof. For they say that all tariqas, including Qadiriyya will be absorbed into the Shadhili Tariqa. However, a brance cannot out grow the tree from which it branches out.

    Good post

    Wa alaikum salaam
    Talut

  9. Abul Layth says:

    The one without a Shaykh, His Shaykh is Shayton – Hafith Shu’ayb Al-Arnaa’ut

  10. Talut says:

    Al salaam alaikum

    This is great Tariqah for the mutasawwif. The reason is, the dhikr is not heavy and it can fit into a busy lifestyle such as the hustle and bustle of students and student workers.
    As a comparison: Qadiri Tariqah starts out as no less than 5000 tahlil a day and 100-1000 Salawat. This puts a person on a level where they
    #1`have less time in the day if they have a job and
    #2 start to ascend fairly fast.
    Ascending fast can backfire in such a decadent society. Frequent Khilwah is required for that type of lifestyle.

    Wa alaikum salaam

    Talut

  11. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    @ibn Umer. Jazzaka’Allah brother. I do not speak arabic. Only English & other language

  12. Ibn Umer says:

    w’salam,
    wa iyyakum khayr.

    In that case, pray that someone translates it into english, as it THOROUGHLY goes through the topic of bid’a, inside out.
    It analyzes the words and examples of numerous imams, from the salaf and khalaf.

  13. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    @Talut

    Allah is a king but He is not like the kings on the earth.

    “There is nothing similar to him” (surah shoora 42:11)

    “And there is nothing comparable to him” ( surah Ikhlass 112:4)

    With Allah you are always invited, unlike the kings of earth. Allah likes His servants seeking forgiveness constantly. It would not be possible to seek forgiveness constantly if you required invitation for every time you seek forgiveness.

    “Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves” (surah al-Bakarah 2:222)

    “And He is the forgiving, the affectionate” (Surah al-Buruj 85:14)

    It is an act of disbelief to seek/worship Allah through someone (a person’s idhn etc); and it is associating partner’s with Allah. Because Allah has not given him/her the permission to intercede. If it were given then we would find the evidence in the Quran and Sunnah. And there is nothing to the extent.

    Say: “To Allah belongs all intercession. His is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. Then to Him you shall be brought back” (Surah 39: verse 44)

    “Who is he that intercede with Him except with His Permission.” (surah Bakarah 2:255)

    Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. (An-Nisa 4:48)

    There is only one way to worship Allah, and that is the way of Prophet. And there is no other ways. Because we were commanded follow Prophet.

    Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): “If you (really) Love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur’ân and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Aali Imran 3:31)

    You can read books the following books of Aqidah:
    Notes on Aqidah al-Wasitiyah by Shaykh Salih al Uthamin
    An explanation of Kitab Al- Tawhid by Allahmah ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Sa’di

    Allah knows best

  14. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    Assalamu Alaikum,
    @ibn Umer
    Teaching my self arabic. I will probably learn arabic before it comes in english, insha’Allah. Arabic language is so Technical…still on basic level.

  15. Talut says:

    Sidi Ahmad ibn Hanbal

    You completely miss what I am getting at in my post.

    #1 It was an analogy. Don’t take things so literal.
    #2 You would not approach a discipline of knowledge without approaching a master of it. So why would someone approach the science of Tasawwuf without approaching a master of it and getting his permission to follow it.
    The reason permission is needed is that a Sheikh must make sure that you are ready to embark upon the Spiritual Path before taking you as a Talib.
    And just like one who approaches knowledge and presumes to teach it or give verdicts without ijaza is reject; so it is with someone who embarks upon the spiritual path without a Sheikh.

    This had nothing to do w/ du’a or in general remembering Allah and seeking his Forgiveness. This is available to all men wihtout exception until their death.
    But, what is being dicussed here is the Spiritual path and for that you need a Sheikh and his permission to practice his discipline.
    And you are right. The only worship that is acceptable is that which the Prophet (SWS) did and commanded. That is, the five pillars, Dhikr and Holy Qur’an, and Salawat upon Rasulullah (SWS).
    The modality of the 5 pillars and Recitation of Holy Qur’an have been given strict guidelines.
    However, for Dhikr and Salawat upon Rasulullah (SWS), a general modality had been given but not a specific modality. So, as long as one is remembering Allah and mentioning His Holy Names or sending Salawat upon Rasulullah (SWS) in a respectful manner, it’s ok.
    This does, also, leave room for masters of the disciplines of the Spiritual Path, with direct experience and ijazah from Spiritual Masters with a chain that goes back to the Prophet (SWS), to (1) transmit these spiritual exercies and (2) alter them as is seen fit for the Murideen of his era and society.

    Wa alaikum salaam

    Talut

  16. Ibn Umer says:

    By the way, here are the dhikrs of Salman [r], Abu Hurayra [r], Abud-Darda’ [r], for which we find no precedent in the sunnah of the Prophet [s].


    عن معمر عن عاصم بن سليمان عن أبي عثمان النهدي قال : كان سلمان يعلمنا التكبير، يقول : كبروا الله، الله أكبر، الله أكبر مراراً، اللهم أنت أعلى وأجل من أن تكون لك صاحبة، أو يكون لك ولد، أو يكون لك شريك في الملك، أو يكون لك ولي في الذل، وكبره تكبيراً، الله أكبر تكبيراً، اللهم اغفر لنا، اللهم ارحمنا، ثم قال : والله لتكتبن هذه ولا تترك هاتان وليكونن هذا شفعاء صدق لهاتين .

    حدثنا مسكين بن بكير، أنبأنا ثابت بن عجلان، عن القاسم بن عبد الرحمن قال: كان لأبي الدرداء نوى من نوى العجوة حسبت عشرًا أو نحوها في كيس، وكان إذا صلى الغداة أقعى على فراشه فأخذ الكيس فأخرجهن واحدة واحدة يسبح بهن، فإذا نفدن أعادهن واحدة واحدة، كل ذلك يسبح بهن، قال: حتى تأتيه أم الدرداء فتقول: يا أبا الدرداء إن غداءك قد حضر فربما قال ارفعوه فإني صائم….”

    قال أبو هريرة: إني لأستغفر الله وأتوب إليه كل يوم اثني عشر ألف مرة….

    Now, for your question about fixing a number (66, 100) for a dhikr, see the athar of Abu Hurayrah above^. He fixed the number 12,000 for his daily wird of istighfar.

    So brother, either these companions were wrong in implementing the general commandment of dhikr with their own formulations, or your understanding is wrong.

  17. Musa says:

    This is all a little disturbing.

    “Verily in the remembrance of Allah hearts find tranquility”

    The verse doesn’t say ‘insanity’ at the end. Why is a man making worship of Allah and ending up in a mental asylum? Humans were created TO worship, its their reason for existing. Why then, if done correctly is it causing insanity?
    Some comments here (knocking on kings door etc) make tasawuf sound like a secret council of some sort – almost kabbalisitic
    If he went insane – either it was a coincidental onset of psychiatry
    or he was affected by shayateen. And these (the latter) shouldn’t be associated with acts of worship taught by the Messenger of Allah (alayhisalatu wasalam).
    These narrations from Abu Hurayrah and other companions about their different wirds – i often see them unreferenced etc. Are they authentic?

  18. abu Zayd says:

    How could a certian thikr belong to certian individuals…this deen is legislated by Allah the most High, and it is not upon individuals to come up with their own forms of ‘ibadaats. This so, because anything that has to do with ‘ibadah in Islam is tawqeefiyyah, meaning that it has have proof from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

    Moreover, saying that thikr can make people crazy is a very strange way of thinking….I mean, when I was a child, I use to hear that ‘so-and-so has gone mad because he makes ‘ibadah too much’ and all I can say is, what is a baseless speech.

  19. Mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Yes i find it strange too. Many will take the tariqa and start their ibaadah but its not likethe shaykh is constantly observing them and training such as the case with sh nuh because he must travel a lot. Yet people say if you dont have a shaykh and try these adhkaar then you may end up going crazy. I find it very strange..

  20. Ibn Ahmad says:

    “Humans were created TO worship, its their reason for existing. Why then, if done correctly is it causing insanity?”

    It’s interesting that you say this. Just ponder on this narration.

    “Remember Allah as much as you want, until people say that you are crazy and foolish.” (Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih).

    So perhaps being placed in a mental institution is something of an honor for a traveler. Mission Accomplished.

    Anyway, I’ve yet to meet a sufi that forces their way down other people’s throats. They don’t really care who follows them and who doesn’t. It’s everybody else that wants to force their way down the sufi’s throat.

    I’m not a sufi; but seriously guys, leave them alone. Live and let live, Insha’Allah!

  21. tilmeedh says:

    Assalamu alaykum,

    Ya ikhwan, to those of you who have objected to what I said above:

    The reason why I mention this is because I do not want anyone to screw themselves up. You are, of course, welcome to do what you please but a brother in Islam (myself) feels concern for his fellow brethren.

    As for the reality of what I mentioned, there are a few things I would want to bring up.

    First of all, this is not the only case of dhikr affecting someone in an ‘adverse’ way. Sheikh Ibn Taymiyya in his Majmu’ has mentioned some of the Salaf who died – DIED – by hearing some verses of the Quran.

    “Verily in the remembrance of Allah hearts find tranquility”

    The verse doesn’t say ‘insanity’ at the end.

    Think again, akhi. People actually DIED from hearing the Quran. It had such an effect on them. These things happen.

    Likewise, Imam Ibn Qayyim has mentioned the report of Al-Shibli who had this awesomely aweful experience and yowled when someone mentioned something about having Sabr of being away from Allah or something…
    Now, already, having mentioned these two names (Ibn Taymiyya and Ibn Qayyim) I think perhaps some people will start thinking different already.
    If that is the case, you need to be asking yourself some serious questions regarding the principles you apply in accepting/rejecting the validity of ideas.

    So these two examples, particularly the one mentioned by Ibn Taymiyya, shows something very interesting. You see a very powerful effect on a person through something which outwardly seems quite harmless to another person.

    Now as for the likelihood that it was the dhikr of the Supreme Name that ended the guy up in jail (or the asylum); then know that this is not the only case. This case just happened to be a local (Toronto) one.
    There are others too. And Sheikh Nuh himself has also told of the guy who blew his fuse because he decided to take the matter into his own hands.
    Stick a 110 appliance in a 220 socket, and don’t complain when the fuse blows.

    You see, dhikr, contrary to what Salafis will have you believe, is more than just a workout for the tongue. There IS an effect on the Ruh.
    And as for the Supreme Name, those who have seen its effect have seen it.

    Those who haven’t, and have decided not to accept this notion, should just get on with their lives just as they were before stumbling across this post.

    Wassalam.

  22. Abu Zayd says:

    Brother, like I stated on the first reply, the rules of the deen with respect to ‘ibadah are not open to people’s views; they are simply legislated by Allâh. On the other hand, are you saying that just because some of the salaf died from hearing recitation of the Qur’ân is due them hearing it wrong? I mean, what does that have to do with ‘doing some shayk’s dikr wrong’? I don’t understand.
    You said,
    “There are others too. And Sheikh Nuh himself has also told of the guy who blew his fuse because he decided to take the matter into his own hands.”
    Brother, could you clarify more on how this person “blew his fuse”?
    Allâhu Must’ân

  23. Abul Layth says:

    Brother, like I stated on the first reply, the rules of the deen with respect to ‘ibadah are not open to people’s views; they are simply legislated by Allâh

    Allah, in His infinite wisdom, has allowed mankind to formulate different types of adhkaar that are of spiritual benefit to them, as long as it does not contradict something specifically legislated by Allah ta’alaa. The majority of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah hold this view, and to contradict such a view, is simply a departure from the view of the jumhur, and true sunnis will discard your words for the words of the A’immah of old.

    We have written on this subject in grave detail on this site, and quite frankly, constantly responding to such claims is getting old.

    Please read: http://seekingilm.com/archives/41

    Specifically where Imam Al-Jurjaani states,

    “Whatever contrivance (fi’latun) contradicts the Sunnah, it is named Bida’ah because whoever supports it innovated it without basis from an Imām. It consists of a novel matter which the Sahābah and their successors did not follow and which is unsupported by a legal proof.” [pg 62]

    And the words of Imam Ibn Hajr :

    قال عمر نعم البدعة في بعض الروايات نعمت البدعة بزياة تاء والبدعة أصلها ما أحدث على غير مثال سابق وتطلق في الشرع في مقابل السنة فتكون مذمومة والتحقيق أنها أن كانت مما تندرج تحت مستحسن في الشرع فهي حسنة وأن كانت مما تندرج تحت مستقبح في الشرع فهي مستقبحة وإلا فهي من قسم المباح وقد تنقسم إلى الأحكام الخمسة

    “‘Umar said, “[What a] Fine innovation!” and in some narrations a (letter) ‘taa’ is added. The root meaning of innovation (bida’ah) is what is produced without precedent. It is applied in the law in opposition to the Sunna and is, in that case, blameworthy. Strictly speaking, if it is part of what is classified as commendable by the law then it is an excellent innovation (hasana), while if it is part of what is classified as blameworthy by the law then it is blameworthy (mustaqbaha), otherwise it falls in the category of what is permitted (mubaah). It can be divided into the five legal categories [(or rulings)Ahkaam Al-Khamsah)]. [Fat-hul Baari Sharh Sahih Al Bukhaari]

    Again, I ask that you read the entire article before posting ahadith about every bida’ah being dhalaalah etc etc. Those who understand such traditions claiming that no one can innovate adhkaar and awraad are wrong, and have been muted by the evidences and arguments presented in the article, as well as the statements of the scholars of old.

    Read the many narrations of the Sahaba INNOVATING different adhkaar and awraad, then comment IN THAT Thread if you find something lacking. This post is not for pseudo-salafi-like individuals who know nothing of tasawwuf to rant and rave about what they do not understand.

    As Sidi Ibn Ahmad quoted:

    The hadith is as Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal records it in his Musnad:

    أكثروا ذكر الله حتى يقولوا مجنون

    Imaam As-Suyuti in his Jaami’ As-Sagheer declares that this hadith is Hasan. It is reported by Ibn Hibbaan in his Sahih, Abu Ya’laa in his Musnad, Al-Haakim in his Mustadarak declaring it Sahih, and Imaam Al-Bayhaqi in Shu’b Al-Eemaan.

    and also the wording:

    أكثروا ذكر الله حتى يقول المنافقون إنكم مراؤون

    “Do so much dhikr of Allah that the Munaafiqoon (the hypocrites) will say, ‘You lot are only showing off!’ “

    This narration has been reported by Imaam Ahmad in “Az-Zuhd” from Abil-Jawzaa’, and from Ibn ‘Abbaas by At-Tabaraani, Imaam al-’Ajlooni reports it in his Kashf ascribing it to Imaam Al-Bayhaqi in “Mursal form from Abil-Jawzaa’ “.

  24. Musa says:

    Assalamualaikum
    I don’t object to what brother tilmeedh said, it’s interesting that he brought it up. If I may I’d just like to make a few concluding remarks:
    1. Dying and insanity are very different (in references those who died on hearing the Qur’an)
    2. Ibn Taymiyyah/Ibn Qayyim are no different to anyone else in that their words are compared with the Qur’an and sunnah. Both, interestingly, were against the sort of Sufism condoned on this site
    3. The worship/dhikr of Allah is of course not a tongue exercise – its impact on the soul is to increase consciousness of Allah and take one closer to ihsan and prevent sin and immorality; these are the powerful effects on the Ruh. Electrocuting yourself and going mad are not the powerful effects meant – I hope!
    4. The greatest sufi in the nation of Muhammad (alayhisalatu wassalam) was Abu Bakr, I hope all agree – he did not die or go insane on hearing the Qur’an; he cried, but didn’t die. Neither did Umar, Uthman, Ali and other Companions. These were greater than any sufi sahib – and greater than any one after them whether they died or not at hearing the Qur’an/making dhikr. No one thought they were crazy either.
    I hold Allah, His Book, & His Messenger in the highest regard-above anything else – but these stories narrated by Ibn Taymiyyah or others should be evaluated in light of the knowledge we have now. Ibn Qayyim’s book on medicine contained ideas that are totally false in light of today’s physiological knowledge – but he’s obviously not disparaged because of that. People die all the time suddenly, doing different things. Whether this is standing at the bus stop, reciting Qur’an, during salah, reciting Torah, in Church, playing football etc. When considering why those from the salaf died it may have been observed that they died whilst reciting Qur’an – but who can say what caused their deaths. Was it fear? Did they fear more than the Companions?
    Most likely it was a supraventricular arrhythmia/ventricular arrhythmia secondary to IHD, WPW syndrome, mural thrombus, cardiac arrest post MI, thrombo-embolic CVA, aortic/arterial dissection, ruptured AAA or any other common cause of sudden death. The salaf also suffered diseases which led to their deaths – and since they were devout and spent a lot of time reciting Qur’an it is entirely consistent that they suffered such an event during recitation for people to put 2+2 to make 5. Allah Knows best. Tremendous as the Holy Qur’an is, these assumptions prove very little especially when considered with the fact that these stories are few and far between and did not affect the most God-fearing of this ummah! These stories do not vindicate the insanity stories at any stretch.
    Ibn Ahmed’s posted hadith, if authentic – I understand Ahmad/ibn hibban/Hakim all contain many weak narrations and Dhahabi disagreed with plently of Hakim’s authentications – surely he doesn’t believe that this means actual insanity. It’s an honour to be in a mental asylum! na’oudubillah. Is it an honour to suffer thought disorder, delusions, psychoses – to be restrained with haloperidol, benzodiazepines, other antipsychotics. When Muslims end up in mental asylums with psychotic disorder they usually believe they are the Prophet or they are God – this is not an honour!
    Sufism is wonderful if taught by responsible scholars, strict adherents to the Sacred Law with adhkar from the Messenger of Allah (saws). Otherwise – look what happens!
    Ramming down throats is irrelevant – Sufis give da’wa just like any other group of people and the reason people object is because they preach Islam as some mystical thing, with mystical stories, mystical dhikrs, and lots of other mystical things. Brother tilmeedh, I will continue to live my life as if I’d never seen this post – no regrets at that. Wassalam brothers
    subhanakAllahumma wabihamdik. Ashaduanlailahaillant istaghfiruka wa atubu ilayk

  25. Ibn Ahmad says:

    The Ibn Hajar quote that Sidi Abul Layth posted has an interesting rhetorical point that is lost in translation.

    Ibn Hajar says:

    أن كانت مما تندرج تحت مستحسن في الشرع فهي حسنة

    transliterated: ‘an kaanat mimmaa tandariju taHta mustaHsinin fi-sh-shar’ fahiya hasanatun

    Pay attention to:

    ‘an kaanat = أن كانت

    ‘an is rarely followed by a past tense verb. It is almost always followed by the present tense. In this case, Ibn Hajar followed it with a past tense verb. This is only done for one reason. It is called tawkeed in Arabic and it means certainty.

    Ibn Hajar is confidentally asserting that there is such a thing as good bid’ah. He cannot be anymore bold in his writing than the grammatical constructs which he has chosen to employ. Sometimes, the fuqaha are unsure of themselves and they say Allahu Alim at the end. Not here. Ibn Hajar knew with full 100% convicted certainty of heart that there is such thing as good bid’ah.

    What he said could be translated as:

    “And there is undoubtedly, without reservation, a category of innovation that falls under that which is considered commendable in Positive Law and is held to be meritorious.”

    And Allahu Alim. :)

  26. Dawud Israel says:

    Sh. Nuh has a cool voice… :)

    I can appreciate the importance of Dhikr in Islam as it is rarely acted upon. I’m still new to this sort of stuff so excuse me, I got two questions:

    1) Is a shaykh always necessary especially considering Abdul Qadir Jilani, Rabia, al-Hallaj, and other ‘shaykhs’ who had no shaykhs but were taught from Allah?

    2) I understand the power of these words of praise and remembrance. Aside from death or insanity in what other (powerful) ways can dhikr affect a person? And what is its relation to the firasa? Does it all depend on the individual (different effect on different people)?

    3) Can an article be done compiling the (safe) adhkaar of some of the early Salaf i.e. Ibn Umer, Imam ‘Ata’, Salman Al-Farisi, Ibn Taymiyya, Abu Hurayra…? There was a quote above by Ibn Umer of Abu Hurayra’s wird but it was in Arabic and not Englizi or with transileration :S

    • PC says:

      Abdul Qadir Jilani, al-Hallaj and Rabia all had guides along the way. Abdul Quadr Jilani strongly advocated the gudiance of a shayk as did the other awliya.

      Taking Bayat is sunnah as narrated by hadiths. And any Shayk who does not follow the sunnah is fasiq (corrupt). The book in the sunnah are the ship of saftey. There should also be sasilia (proof of lineage back to he Prophet (SAW)).

      Also, argumentation and words are of no use. Fana is only achieved through sleeplessness, hunger, dhikr, fikr (contemplation) and the mercy of Allah.

      Do not waste time with people who bicker about the path or those who mock the deen. Their words of no importance. It serves you no good in this life or the hereafter.

      Wake up in the last third of the night, perform Tajjajud, perform witr, then do salat istakhara and ask Allah for guidance in the form of dua(with sincerity, humility and need). Inshallah the answer will come to you.

  27. Dawud Israel says:

    Make that three questions… :)

  28. Abul Layth says:

    1) Is a shaykh always necessary especially considering Abdul Qadir Jilani, Rabia, al-Hallaj, and other ’shaykhs’ who had no shaykhs but were taught from Allah?

    Brother Dawud,

    Allah ta’alaa has said in the Qur’an, “And ask the people of Dhikr if you do not know!” The scholars of old have always used this aayah to establish the obligation of having a guide – a Shaykh.

    Secondly: In the silsilah of the Shaadhilis the chain reads:

    “…Abu Madyan and he took from Abdul Qaadir Al-Jaylaani and he took from Sa’id Al Mubaarak…”

    So I do not believe the assertion of Abdul Qaadir Al-Jaylaani being shaykhless is correct. Furthermore, beloved brother, Shaykh Abdul Qaadir Al-Jaylani (also spelled Jili, Jilaani etc) wrote an entire section in his Fat-h-ur Rabbani regarding the qualities of a one’s shaykh etc. See here for a fantastic read “The Importance of a Good Shaykh”:

    http://www.livingislam.org/n/igs_e.html

    I understand the power of these words of praise and remembrance. Aside from death or insanity in what other (powerful) ways can dhikr affect a person? And what is its relation to the firasa? Does it all depend on the individual (different effect on different people)?

    Dhikr, beloved brother, is the heart’s drawing near to his Lord through glorification of His Master, the exalted. This is done through many different methods. The more one draws near to Allah, the more one Allah draws near to them, as our Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) stated:

    The Prophet said, “Allah says: ‘I am just as My slave thinks I am*, and I am with him if He remembers Me. If he remembers Me in himself, I too, remember him in Myself; and if he remembers Me in a group of people, I remember him in a group that is better than they; and if he comes one span nearer to Me, I go one cubit nearer to him; and if he comes one cubit nearer to Me, I go a distance of two outstretched arms nearer to him; and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running.’ ”

    [Bukhari vol. 9, book 93, no. 502]

    * (i.e. I am able to do for him what he thinks I can do for him)

    Also, recall that the more one makes dhikr of Allah, the more one realizes the haqaa’iq (realities) of dunyaa and aakhirah. This is why the Nabi (‘alayhi salaam said):

    “The example of the one who celebrates the Praises of his Lord (Allah) [lit: does dhikr of His Lord - yadhkara rabbahu] in comparison to the one who does not celebrate the Praises of his Lord, is that of a living creature compared to a dead one.”

    So “life” in the spiritual sense is in fact based upon the level of remembrance of one’s Lord. A true Sufi, as you will read in the books of rijaal and tabaqaat, are those individuals whose dhikr is unmatched.

    And lastly, when one takes a tariqah, they will see the results the awraad and other litanies of Sunnas, as well as the different means of polishing the heart (ex. Hadrah, latifiyyah etc) will do for one spiritually. You will find, as I did, that incredible blessings and things happen to one when they implement the ways of the saints – the friends of Allah. As Shaykh Nuh said in a lecture he gave at a suhbah I attended, the awliyaa’ see these karamaat occurring to them, but hide them as they are irrelevant to them. The beginner, however, may become seduced by them and it becomes a severe trial for them.

    Can an article be done compiling the (safe) adhkaar of some of the early Salaf i.e. Ibn Umer, Imam ‘Ata’, Salman Al-Farisi, Ibn Taymiyya, Abu Hurayra…? There was a quote above by Ibn Umer of Abu Hurayra’s wird but it was in Arabic and not Englizi or with transileration :S

    Maybe someone else can deal with this. The wirds of Sufi tariqahs are simply a compilation of the different adhkaar of Nabi, the salaf, and saints of old. My recommendation is that if one truly seeks nearness of Allah, they seek the “science” by which to attain that nearness, just as the masters of old did; Tasawwuf. I hope my answers aided you.

  29. Abul Layth says:

    To Musaa:

    Originally I thought I would pass over your irrelevant, and sometimes demented, remarks. However, the itch needs scratching.

    1. Dying and insanity are very different (in references those who died on hearing the Qur’an)

    You missed the point. Dying and insanity are two extreme psychological states. In this specific scenario, it shows the effects of dhikr upon the soul.

    2. Ibn Taymiyyah/Ibn Qayyim are no different to anyone else in that their words are compared with the Qur’an and sunnah. Both, interestingly, were against the sort of Sufism condoned on this site

    We will not behave like the ignorant fish and take this dying worm from you. It is a shame that you fail to see, again, the point.

    3. The worship/dhikr of Allah is of course not a tongue exercise – its impact on the soul is to increase consciousness of Allah and take one closer to ihsan and prevent sin and immorality; these are the powerful effects on the Ruh. Electrocuting yourself and going mad are not the powerful effects meant – I hope!

    You fail to grasp the examples forwarded by Sidi Tilmeedh then you throw out into the discussion, what you deem “concluding remarks” by mentioning “electrocuting yourself…”! What on earth are you talking about? For Allah’s sake save us and your nafs from such stupidity!

    4. The greatest sufi in the nation of Muhammad (alayhisalatu wassalam) was Abu Bakr, I hope all agree – he did not die or go insane on hearing the Qur’an; he cried, but didn’t die. Neither did Umar, Uthman, Ali and other Companions. These were greater than any sufi sahib – and greater than any one after them whether they died or not at hearing the Qur’an/making dhikr. No one thought they were crazy either.

    No one thought they were crazy? Read the seerah again and speak only with knowledge.

    وقالوا يا أيها الذي نزل عليه الذكر إنك لمجنون
    And they say: O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! you are most surely insane (majnun)…

    Truth is insanity to the foolish.

    I hold Allah, His Book, & His Messenger in the highest regard-above anything else – but these stories narrated by Ibn Taymiyyah or others should be evaluated in light of the knowledge we have now. Ibn Qayyim’s book on medicine contained ideas that are totally false in light of today’s physiological knowledge – but he’s obviously not disparaged because of that. People die all the time suddenly, doing different things. Whether this is standing at the bus stop, reciting Qur’an, during salah, reciting Torah, in Church, playing football etc. When considering why those from the salaf died it may have been observed that they died whilst reciting Qur’an – but who can say what caused their deaths. Was it fear? Did they fear more than the Companions? Most likely it was a supraventricular arrhythmia/ventricular arrhythmia secondary to IHD, WPW syndrome, mural thrombus, cardiac arrest post MI, thrombo-embolic CVA, aortic/arterial dissection, ruptured AAA or any other common cause of sudden death.

    Stupidstition! An extreme mental state can overwhelm the physiological self; example: I have seen people die from anxiety attacks before. The stress on the heart is simply over the top. Point: a mental state can destroy the physical one. It is now proven that stress ( a mental state) can kill a person:

    Example 1: Stress can cause septic shock http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1523200.stm

    Example 2: Stress can cause heart attacks http://www.slate.com/id/2145074/

    Example 3: Work related stress can kill: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL2284632220080123

    Witnesses reports of how meditating monks could control respiration rate, pulse, sweating, and other physiological states:
    http://www.noetic.org/research/medbiblio/ch1.htm

    Another good read by the APA:
    http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec03/tibetan.html

    Fact: You are thousands of years behind medicine, both the spiritual and physiological.

    Tremendous as the Holy Qur’an is, these assumptions prove very little especially when considered with the fact that these stories are few and far between and did not affect the most God-fearing of this ummah! These stories do not vindicate the insanity stories at any stretch. Ibn Ahmed’s posted hadith, if authentic – I understand Ahmad/ibn hibban/Hakim all contain many weak narrations and Dhahabi disagreed with plently of Hakim’s authentications – surely he doesn’t believe that this means actual insanity. It’s an honour to be in a mental asylum! na’oudubillah. Is it an honour to suffer thought disorder, delusions, psychoses – to be restrained with haloperidol, benzodiazepines, other antipsychotics. When Muslims end up in mental asylums with psychotic disorder they usually believe they are the Prophet or they are God – this is not an honour!

    Such manipulation only shows your own spiritual state. What this really amounts to is denial of karamaat, and different ahwaal. To entertain such non-sense is a waste of precious time.

    Jazaakum Allahu Khairan.

  30. Dawud Israel says:

    Jazaka Allahu khayran for your thought out answers brother!

    I got a few more if you don’t mind…again I’m still learning.

    1) Maybe it’s just my perception but the Shadhili tareeqah seems to be the dominant tareeq in North America? What other tareeqs are there in NA and how do they differ?

    2) I read somewhere that Russian Special forces used some Sufi techniques or something? I couldn’t find anything on this…so I thought maybe you would know? Also theres a documentary I would like to hear your thoughts on: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6708686897899858973

    3) Is the tassawuf of ‘then’ (the classical Khawja Bahaudin, Imam Junayd, etc.) still the same today or is it a lesser degree due to secularism, fitan etc ? Or is it too difficult to say?

  31. Abul Layth says:

    Bro Dawud, when our Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) says, “The ‘eye’ is real”, he is not lying.

  32. Dawud Israel says:

    LOL smart brother.
    I think that answered 2 and 3…any comment on 1? I need to get further than interrogating you on your website! :)

  33. Talut Dawood says:

    Salaam alaikum Brother Dawud

    Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani (Allah be pleased with Him) had a silsilah that reached back to the Prophet (SWS) through Hasan al Basri, Ma’ruf al Kharkhi, Junayd, (Allah be pleased with them all). He took the Khirqah (cloak of spiritual lineage) of Ma’ruf al Kharkhi from his Sheikh Abu Khayr Hammad al Dabbas.
    It was only after his perfecting his Tasawwuf that he set about to codify the rules and practices of Tasawwuf, including classifying the types that fall within and without the fold of Islam. His path eventually became called the Qadiriyya and most Tariqahs now have a silsilah that connects to him. That is why he seems a solitary figure in Islamic history. But, he did have a Sheikh.

    Likewise, Rabiah (Allah be pleased with her) is said to have taken Tariqah from Hasan al Basri (Allah be pleased with him).

    As for al Hallaj, he studied under Shaykh Junayd and Shaykh Shibli (Allah be pleased with them both). He, however, did not follow the rules of conduct of the sheikhs and he eventually left them. His end is enough of a warning for those who wish to take Tasawwuf upon themselves.

    Wa alaikum salaam

    Talut

  34. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    I come from country where there are a lot of sufis. many of them have little understanding of Quran & Sunnah. They have their own turiqa and some include singing and dancing. Almost all of them have a alleged miraculous incident ( in my country, a sufi master is not accepted without that). they follow their turiqa with care and highest priority but would often not pray the daily five prayer including their master (saint, pires). there is no turiqa on earth can be more important then five daily prayer. The master’s make their follower believe that only way to Allah is through the master and his turiqa (pure shirk). These masters also give amulets and charms and has good connection with jinns to help them black magic.

    My general advice to All brothers and sisters is that avoid sufism and its toriqa completely. In order that you may not fall into error (shirk and miss-guidance). As for people who have very good understanding of Quran and Sunnah may look into their turiqa – may adopt some dhikr which complies with quran and sunnah.

  35. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    AVOID SUFISM AND ITS TARIQA COMPLETELY!

  36. Ibn Saad says:

    Ahmed, Look at what your Imam has to say about Sufis:

    Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Saffarini al-Hanbali (d. 1188) relates in his Ghidha’ al-albab li-sharh manzumat al-adab from Ibrahim ibn `Abd Allah al-Qalanasi that IMAM AHMED said about the Sufis: “I don’t know people better than them.” (al-Saffarini, Ghidha’ al-albab li-sharh manzumat al-adab (Cairo: Matba`at al-Najah, 1324/1906) 1:120).

  37. Abul Layth says:

    Amulets, in essence, are not haraam according to the majority of scholars, as long as they have Qur’an and the like of it on them. In fact it is reported by Imam Ahmad that he utilized talisman:

    Al-Maruzi said, “It has been related by Ahmad, ‘I once had a fever and a man wrote the following talisman as a protection against fever for me: “In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate (Qur’an: 1.1) – by the Name of Allah – by Allah Himself – and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah -’O fire, be coolness and peace on Ibrahim’ – and they wanted to trap him, but We made them the greater losers (Qur’an: 21.69-70) – O Lord of Jibril, Mikail and Rafail, cure whoever possesses this writing by Your might and by Your power and by Your strength – O Lord of the creation – Amin – So be it.”‘”

    source: http://www.livingislam.org/n/spr_e.html

    Also a good read on this topic: http://www.mail-archive.com/msa_ec@listbot.com/msg00119.html

    I recommend reading Imam Ash-Shawkani’s chapter regarding it in his Nayl Al Awtaar as well.

    As for black magic, it is shirk/Kufr, and those who deal in it are not true sufis, as the Sufi abides strictly by the code of divine law.

    It is true that some who claim tasawwuf do not abide by the shari’ah. However, would you say that of the known Hanbali, Ibn Qudaamah, a sufi: ? Would you say that about Imam Adh-Dhahabi, a Sufi? Would you say that of the majority of the scholars of Islam, Sufis?

    Read: http://seekingilm.com/archives/157

    So the caravan is moving and the dogs are barking. Dogs of hell especially, the neo-khariji scum from the cursed land of najd – The anti-sufi wahhabi cult! Those who revolted against the Khalifah! Those who have abandoned the Sunnah, the way of the salaf, and the way of the scholars of old.

    May Allah guide us all aright amin!

  38. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    @ Abu Layth,

    If you had a little brother who doesn’t have good understanding of Quran and Sunnah then would you send him to a group to learn islam. Where many member of the group commits shirk, practices black magic, do not pray?

    Surely it would be difficult for you little brother distinguish which sufi sheik is strictly adhering to Quran and sunnah. That is reason why I said :
    “As for people who have very good understanding of Quran and Sunnah may look into their turiqa – may adopt some dhikr which complies with quran and sunnah.

    These sufis I have described are not like ibn Qadama. if they were like him I would respect them & I would love study under them.

    I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A PERSON CALLING HIM SELF SUFI AS LONG AS HE FOLLOWS QURAN AND SUNNAH

    I hope that clarifies my intention

  39. mustafa says:

    as-salaamu alaykum,

    Yes i too agree that tasawwuf is good as long as it abides by shariah. (Not that my opinion matters). But i notice many strange things in some writings. Such as using strange letters in duas.. such as saying kaaf , saad, alif, baa etc.. and strange numeral structures in duas. One things im wanting to do is learn some basic sunnah adhkar before trying to do some adhkaar with swaying, bobbing of the head, and shaking , or hadra etc..

    A sister once told me if people applied all of the sunnah daily they would not have time for the hadra, swaying, etc.. of some of the sufis.

    Also when old aimah such as abu hanifa rahimahullah or ash-shafiee rahimahullah praised sufis we have to understand that during his time sufism wasnt following a tariqa and people having a set form of dhikr and numerical duas etc.. It was basically zuhd. (im not saying the turuq are wrong im just stating the facts). There is a difference between there times and the sufis of later times. I have learned some of this from the works of husayn nasr. He writes a lot on the history of tasawwuf and defends it. I do see the difference though.

    I remember akhi abuz zubayr told me about tariqas he said Sufism is a mine field (Because i had suggested to him that many ulama were sufis etc) after he told me its a mine field it reaccors to me many times that perhaps he is right because how does an ignorant insignificant person such as Mustafa know what sufi sheikh is right and who is wrong? How can i dinstinguish what actions are contrary to quran and sunnah? If i place my trust in a people such as hisham qabbani and his likes there could be much destruction. I could even possibly lose my religion.

    with Allaah lies success

  40. tru_Qur'an says:

    Assalaamu ‘Alaykum,

    Imaam Nawawi ( May Allah have mercy on him) says in section w9.2 of Umdat ul Salik ( The Reliance of the Traveller),,

    ” The way of Sufism is based on five principles: having godfearingness privately and publcily, living according to the sunna in word and deed, indifference to where others accept or reject one, satisfaction with Allah Most High in dearth and plenty, and returning to Allah in happiness or affliction. The principles of treating the illnesses of the soul are also five: lightening the stomach by diminishing one’s food and drink, taking refuge in Allah Most High from the unforeseen when it befalls, shunning situations involving what one fears to fall victom to, continually asking for Allah’s forgiveness and His blessings upon the Prophet ( Allah bless him and give him peace) night and day with full presence of mind, and keeping the company of him who guides one to Allah.” ( al-Maqasid fi bayan ma yajibu ma’rifatuhu min al-din(y106), 83-84, 87).

  41. Abul Layth says:

    Bismillah:

    @Ahmad: Firstly, as I stated there are established sufi Turuq that are sound, and then there are the unsound tariqas. Those that are sound are known by the strength of the silsila. Ibn Qudaama, Adh-Dhahabi, and others that the pseudo-salafi neo-khariji ilk look up to were in fact Sufi and took tasawwuf from the same Shuyukh many of the turuq today took from, especially Abdul Qaadir Al-Jilaani (in reference to Ibn Qudaama).

    Secondly, I do have little brothers and I would advise them just as I would advise you, find an established tariqah that clings to the Sunnah and the way of the forefathers. If you don’t you will never experience the spirituality the forefathers of this Ummah felt. That is the bottom line. You can not figure Islam out on your own, such an approach is the way of the misguided. Allah ta’alaa stated, “Ask the people of knowledge when you do not know.”

    @mustafa:

    1) You said:

    Such as using strange letters in duas.. such as saying kaaf , saad, alif, baa etc.. and strange numeral structures in duas.

    Yeah, Allah utilized those “strange letters” as well. There is an authentic narration from Ali ibn Abi Talhah from Ibn ‘Abbas that these “strange letters” signify the names of Allah ta’alaa. Furthermore, have you ever asked a Sufi Shaykh as to why they are utilized in different hizb? I doubt it. So ask before discussing something you have no knowledge of. The same applies to the numbering system. Why did the nabi (‘alayhis salaam) choose “33″ times to do the known adhkaar and not 11? Why did he say “Allah” only 2 times in this narration: http://seekingilm.com/archives/134

    And the examples can go on and on.

    The true sufi Shuyukh see what you do not see. It is not haraam, or even makrooh, to do a specific type of dhikr a certain number of times, as long as there is not something specifically in the Sunnah that it would contradict. So what the Sufis say in their hizb work. They have for over a thousand years and will continue to work until mankind’s demise.

    A sister once told me if people applied all of the sunnah daily they would not have time for the hadra, swaying, etc.. of some of the sufis.

    It is interesting you mention this point. Shaykh Nuh, in a lecture I was listening to, mentioned that there are simply too many Sunan reported from the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) for one to do them all in one day and still live. The question is why? There are many possible explanations, one being that the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) wanted people to do different adhkaar and awraad so as to keep the nafs interested in different types of dhikr. This is why the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam left the door open for many different methods and performances of du’aa. He allowed many of the Sahabah to make up their own du’aa or litany of remembrances. So whatever sister told you that is ignorant of the reality of the spiritual affair. It is not obligatory to perform every du’aa/dhikr the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) performed and it is also the Sunnah of the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam to allow people to make their own adi’yah and adhkaar. This fact is HIS SUNNAH, not just the sunnah of the ‘awliyaa after him.

    As for your continued attack upon the hadrah, then take it somewhere else. It is permitted in the law, and to hold contempt for what Allah has made Halaal is blind foolishness. Are you wiser than He ta’alaa?

    I remember akhi abuz zubayr told me about tariqas he said Sufism is a mine field (Because i had suggested to him that many ulama were sufis etc) after he told me its a mine field it reaccors to me many times that perhaps he is right because how does an ignorant insignificant person such as Mustafa know what sufi sheikh is right and who is wrong?

    The scare tactics employed by wahhabis is hilarious. The only mine field I know of is following the khalaf and abandoning the way of the scholars of old. If Abuz Zubayr is a true Hanbali as he professes, then let him implement the way of the old Hanbalis and accept a tariqah! Let him have the same faith in tasawwuf that His hanbali forefathers did. Or were they deviant as well for being Sufi and reciting the different hizb and awraad of the Sufis?

    Tasawwuf is only a mine field for the foolish. Those who have to much ignorance & arrogance, such as the takfeerified neo-khariji neo Muqaatiliyyah, to abide by the Sunnic way, the way of the forefathers of this Ummah. If one has to much arrogance to listen to the Shaykh, then that persons shaykh will be Shayton, the father of arrogance. There is no doubt that we see the consequences of the spiritually devoid pseudo-salafi cult with their high rate of “salafi-burn out” from wahhabi “u”. How many thousands of “pseudo-salafis” have I seen leave such stupidity because of their empty da’wah, ridiculous beliefs, and abandonment of the scholars of old! Those that stay are only as dark and demented as their as their khaariji forefathers. The late ottomans saw the evils of this khaariji/Najdi cult, and drove them from the blessed land of Hijaz due to its poison. The Freemason British later blessed it!

    May Allah bless our beloved master Muhammad, his family, and his followers. Amin! Oh Allah, by the right of those who ask you, forgive us and guides us. Amin!

  42. mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    jazakallaah khayr akhi abul layth. No need to get angry with me akhi. I think i did not clarify myself. I did not mean doing a certain amount of dhikr (like 100 times etc) I meant during dua, one utters certain strange numbers that are suppose to signify something. usually ‘secrets’ Its simlar to the letters with the belief that there is something great intended behind them.

    Your explanation is really good akhi, but we would think the best of this ummah like the salaf would use there letters and numbers within their duas. Im not saying everything after them is rejected no not at all, but if something has such a significant secret that brings one close to Allaah by uttering letters and numbers then indeed i think the best of the ummah would have known.

    Same with the sufis who claim they have seen Allaah (or a manifested image that does not necessarily mean the dhat of Allah) if they can experiance this then what about the best of the ummah? are the sahabah better or are the sufis that came years later better?

    AKhi im not trying to get into argumentation and debate its just my opinion. Trust me akhi im fascinated with sufis. I have tons of books. However, I just dont think everything is correct. Yes im jahil but I still have the ability to distinguish what my heart feels right and what feels wrong.

  43. Abul Layth says:

    Again, the sahaba recited the Qur’an as their hizb for the day, and the utilized the “strange letters”. Your feelings regarding that is null. The Sahaba did not delve into the intracacies of fiqh either, should we abandon that too? The Sahaba did not delve into the intracacies of ‘aqidah (or even use the word), should we abandon that too?

    The Sahaba did, however, create new ad’iyah and adhkaar, as we have proven numerous occassions elsewhere. This sets a precedent for those after them to do so.

  44. mustafa says:

    as-salaamu alaykum,

    I just fine a big difference between what the Sahabah radiallahu anhu did and what the Sufis who indulge in ilm al kalam do. Brother you have quoted ibn Ataa illaah many times (rahimahullah) i want to show what he has said using these letters.

    Abul hasan ash-shaaadhili and abul abbaas al-mursee: “In the Name of al-muhaymin (the watcher over all creatures), the All mighty, the all able… and He is my helper (qaaf), (Jeem), (noon),(Saad), grant me your help and support.” (Lataa’if al-minan, p342, quoted in Firaq Mu’aasirah p.720-721)

    Also explaining th eshaadhili combination of circles, squares, rings, letters etc and their characteriristics and usage as means of protection against evil.. The circle is an inscription of the following: ‘Tahoorun, bad’aqun, mahbabah, soorah, saghaatees, saqaateem, ahoonun, qaafun,adumma, hamma, haa’un, ameenun (or ameen).” (ibid p.191)

    Brother this seems scairy.

    Im not discrediting tasawwuf. I love tasawwuf. I also enjoyed recently watching al-ghazzali alchemist of happiness. Im not against soofies im just weary of some of the practices. I am trying not to have an ‘all or nothing’ attitude. I cant accept everything soofies do and I ofcourse cant shun everything to do. I think this is similar to ibn taymiyah, ibn qayyim and other ulama view of the soofies.

    I believe even ibn qayyim mentioned that Sufees are from ahlus sunnah.

    Im not trying to slander any sufi leader or shaykh nuh hafidullah or anyone else. Im just showing what my heart sees as incorrect.

  45. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    With respect borther abu Layth

    “The scare tactics employed by wahhabis is hilarious.”

    It is not an scary tactics. To fully appreciate our views (me & brother Mustafa). Please do look into some of the contemporary sufi sheiks. also sufism in general and its practice and affect at present time. See some of the videos in sufi sheiks. I am talking non-sense brother: you go to Bangladesh, India and pakistan see their practice and come back to me. Insha’Allah, you will not have the view you have now.

    With utmost respect brother you view on sufism is based on what you read in books about classical sufis. My views are on practices of present sufis.

    The ulama (mainly hanafi. you would be lucky to find a salafi in the village) in my country (Bangladesh) go as group to stop sufi sermonises in the villages due to their act as described before. But the same can’t not be done in city due to police getting involved.

    May Allah guide us.

  46. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    correction: I’m not talking non-sense

  47. Abul Layth says:

    I have already responded to your concerns Mustafa and am honestly tired of addressing the same over and over again. There is something I would like for you to reflect on, as it occurred to me while I was driving back from the library.

    Abu Said al-Khudri said: A group of companions of Allah’s Messenger went on a journey. On their way, they came by a camp of Bedouins and solicited their hospitality. The Arab Bedouins refused to welcome them, so the companions stayed nearby and took a rest. Meanwhile, the chief of the Bedouins became ill of a scorpion bite. His immediate circle tried everything they knew but no avail. Finally, they went and asked the the Sahabah a cure or a ruqya to cure him. The Sahabah said: “You refused us to host us, so we will not treat your chief unless you pay us for it!” So the people agreed to pay them a flock of sheep.

    One of them starteing reciting Umm Al Qur’an (i.e. faatihah) and gathering his saliva and spitting it at the bite. The chief was cured and his people presented the sheep to them, but they said, “We will not take it until we ask Rasulullah (‘alayhis salaam). When they asked him, he smiled and said,

    وما أدراك أنها رقية؟

    What made you realize that it [i.e. faatihah] was a ruqya? Take the reward and assign a share for me.

    [Sahih Al Bukhaari 5736 Dar us Salaam english print]

    Firstly the one doing the ruqya, known as a Raaqi, was Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri himself. The proof for this is another narration via Al-’Amash wherein Abu Sa’id is reporting the hadith and when the people asked if there was any amongst them who had a cure he said:

    قُلْت نَعَمْ أَنَا

    “I said: ‘Yes I do’!” This point has been forwarded by Ibn Hajr Al-’Asqalaani in his Fat-hul-Baari in the Sharh of this hadith in the book of Al-Ijaarah.

    Secondly, and the main point to all of this, is that I want you to notice that the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) did not teach the Sahabah of the cure within faatihah, what the Sufis call “sirrul faatiha”. In fact he was amazed that they knew it was a ruqya! Hence his words:

    وما أدراك أنها رقية؟

    and in another report in Sahih Al Bukhaari:

    ‏وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ أَنَّهَا رُقْيَةٌ

    “And what made you realize/know that it was a ruqya?”

    In the Chain of Ma’bad ibn Sireen the Nabi (‘alayhi salaam) said:

    وَمَا كَانَ يُدْرِيه

    And as Ibn Hajr said, “This is a phrase used when on is astonished at something (التَّعَجُّب مِنْ الشَّيْء وَتُسْتَعْمَل فِي تَعْظِيم الشَّيْء ).

    And as Al-Hafith Ibn Hajr stated, “And the apparent meaning (thaahir) is that there was no knowledge of the legislated aspect (mashru’iyyah) of performing ruqya with Al-Faatihah!” [Fat-hul-Baari]

    The upshot to all of this is that the Sahabah believed it was permitted to utilize the Qur’an for issues of spiritual/physical benefit. This precedent was applied and utilized by the forefathers of the Sufis, and this is why you see in the adi’ya, hizb, awraad the letters that contain immense benefit. They have seen this work for Muslims, and they implement them to this day.

    This is also another example of a Sahabi believing it was permitted to commit a bida’ah as long as it did not contradict the sunnah. It is also proof that everything is halaal until proof is brought that it is haraam – as said by the Shafi’is.

    Lastly,

    With utmost respect brother you view on sufism is based on what you read in books about classical sufis. My views are on practices of present sufis.

    Dear brother, with utmost respect I have no idea what you are talking about! I have sat with the Sufis, I have learned from them, and my Shaykh is – qaddas Allahu Sirruh – a Shaykh of the Shaadhili Tariqah. Your experiential knowledge is worthless in light of the “books” and the actions of the “true Sufis – Sufi Muhiqq”. And yes, you are talking non-sense, may Allah bless you. I do agree with you to some extant, like I stated before, that there are “claimant Sufis” out there who are coo-coo for coco puffs! For me, however, I don’t see much difference between those psycho sufis and the psycho wahhabis! They both do nut-job things and both have beliefs contrary to Islam.

  48. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Yes, true sufis are good and they stuck to Quran and sunnah with their molar teeth (like Ibn Qadamah). It is undeniable to say that people who claim to be sufi do not do the following (weather they are sufi or not is a diffeerent argument):
    1. Worship in the grave yard
    2. singing dancing with instrument which are haram
    3. Make the follower feel that the only way to Allah is through Him (pure shirk)
    4. Have good connection with jinns for black magic
    5. They have to have mireculous event happen to them to be accepted as saint. Many other things which directly contridict the views of ahlus sunnah wal jamah

    THEREFORE, I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ISLAM THAT IF INSIST ON FOLLOWING A TARIQA OF A SUFI SHEIK THEN YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING UNLESS YOU HAVE REACHED THE LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING OF MUJTAHID.

    1.BEFORE FOLLOWING ANY TARIQA YOU MUST GET VERIFIED BY A HIGHLY EDUCATED SHEIK OF HANAFI/MALIKI/SHAFI/HANBALI/SALAFI.

    2. YOU NEED TO TELL YOU SHEIK: WHAT IS THE TARIQA, HOW IS IT PERFORMED, WHEN IS IT PERFORMED, WHAT IS INTENTION OF PERFORMING THE TARIQA, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE TRYING ACHIEVE BY THE TARIQA.

    As for the stament of Shafi you mentioned brother Layth

    “..It is also proof that everything is halaal until proof is brought that it is haraam – as said by the Shafi’is.”

    BUT YOU HAVE MISSED THE KEY POINT HERE AND THAT IS THE ABOVE STATEMENT OF SHAFI’ IS ONLY TRUE WHEN AN ACT IS NOT AN ACT OF WORSHIP (EXAMPLE, PRAYER, DUA).

    Case 1: AN ACT IS AN ACT OF WORSHIP(i.e prayer, Dua)

    sujud in prayer is an obligation. now lets say some one wanted to do 3 sujud instead of 2 sujud in each rakah. Every rightly guided sheik will say it is forbidden.

    sujud is not only permissible but it is a obligatory duty. so why would it be forbidden when you are trying worship you Lord better. it is because Prophet didn’t pray like that. When it comes to worship we are ONLY allowed to worship Allah the way prophet tought us.

    Case 2: AN ACT IS NOT AN ACT OF WORSHIP(i.e. driving car, using computer, traveling by areoplane)

    Driving Cars: Prophet did not drive cars so are we allowed to drive cars?

    All rightly guided sheik would say, yes it is permissible to drive cars because prophet did not forbid it.

    IMAM SHAFI’S STATEMENT IS VALID FOR FOR AN ACT WHICH IS NOT AN ACT OF WORSHIP AS INTENDED BY IMAM SHAFI

    May Allah Guide us to the correct path.

  49. Ibn Umer says:

    …It is undeniable to say that people who claim to be sufi do not do the following (weather they are sufi or not is a diffeerent argument):
    1. Worship in the grave yard

    You mean Imams Ibn Khuzayma and Al-Lalika’i??

  50. mustafa says:

    ibn umar do elaborate for us

  51. tru_Qur'an says:

    Assalaamu ‘Alaykum,

    With regard to the Ashab who used the ruqya to heal the person poisoned and Rasul(saws)agreed to the act….

    A question arises, since the Rasul(saws) was there, present with the Sahabah, he(saws) was able to agree or disagree to a ‘new act’ which came about.

    Now, Rasul(saws) is not here to verify if the ‘new’ acts that come about are halal or haram, so wouldn’t we have to be careful with regards to falling into bid’ah?

  52. Musa Ali says:

    Assalamualaikum

    Abu Layth gets very tired doing all this responding. It must be hard work being so pernicious & abrasive. Sorry if we don’t feel sorry for you. About Abu Sa’id’s Ruqya hadith:

    I. there is nothing to suggest he made it up on the spot. The words of the Prophet ‘how did you know…’ – are too non-specific for such a tenuous deduction. He simply asked ‘how’! What if the practice was already well established. Ahadith are snap-shots of incidents in time; there are details missing here which may clarify the situation but in a legal discussion no such implication can be made. Furthermore…
    II. If he made this is up all by himself – isn’t it rather an unbelievable coincidence that he happened to choose the ‘sunnah’ method – and not, for e.g., say Allahu x4000/fast/recite surah yasin/dance about lke sufis chanting. You cannot just make this act up because there is nothing in fatiha to suggest that it heals. It would be like a sahabi randomly deducing, for e.g., that by fasting/giving sadaqa one day, his body would be purified of all disease for the next 5 years. If random things like this can just be made up and the Shari’ah can be conjured up like this, what on earth is the point of the hadith ‘whoever introduces something into our affar….’? You cannot just GUESS as to what is in Revelation-this knowledge comes from a Messenger
    III. Nobody disputed the act’s permissibility or challenged him as would likely be the case if it was conjectural-recall how Umar would react if he suspected something was not from the Prophet; They went to the Prophet about the issue of payment, not legality of the act
    IV. It is more plausible & consistent that he had prior knowledge & learnt this from another sahabi such as Anas bin Malik/Aisha [spubs bukhari 5370, 5372 et al;]
    V. The Prophet generally discouraged ruqya, it being maybe a makruh act. He spoke of those 70,000 of his nation who would enter Paradise amongst whom were those who did not practice ruqya and instead put their trust in Allah [spubs Muslim 425; Bukhari]. The Companions were careful due to the Prophet’s saying, ‘Ruqya, charms, tiwalah are shirk’” [ibn majah,abu dawud,ibn hibban,hakim-approved by dhahabi] and did only that which the Prophet allowed, as evidenced in sahihayn they questioned him a great deal about it and gained permission before engaging in it.
    VI. The Companions knew to practice ruqya only for scorpion bites, evil eye/magic, ear ailments & they had specific du’as (Bukhari al-fath 5675, 5750;) & Qur’anic verses (Fatihah, al-Mi’wadhatayn, Ayat al-Kursiy & Ikhlaas – without specific number of recitations) in the belief that Allah is the One Who heals if He so Wills
    VII.Finally, once again this act has foundation in the Sunnah; it is not an innovation into Revelation

    nor are the other acts usually used as examples by extremist sufis who love making tahrif and not just submitting/following ..such as Umar’s good bid’ah/uthman’s 2nd adhan/and others in keller’s Reliance. wallahu a’lam
    wait for it…here comes our sufi hero (dont get tired)..wassalam

  53. Ahmad al_hanbali says:

    I mainly know sufi sheiks in Bangladesh. My aunt was a sufi. I saw her practice. Most of the followers are most ill educated people. Practices vary from sheik to sheik. There is sufi sheik by the name khaza Baba (Father Khaza). He makes his followers make sujud to him. some would make them worship grave of saint: going to the grave asking for child those who can’t have child. MOST SAINTS DON’T PRAY BUT YOU WILL HEAR HIM DOING DHIKR LOUDLY..ALLAH HU…ALLAH HU..STRESSING THE VOCAL CORD. THEY ARE FINANCED BY BLACK MAGIC: people come for cure of many types of illness mainly jin possession. Their geathering place for dhikr is around the graves of sheiks who passed away. There are other who do dhikr of dancing with music instrument. They are some who don’t do shirk but still fall into bidah according to the hanafi scholars of my country.

    I agree with you tru_Quran. Here is example of Prophet disapproving an act, which Abu Bakra (sahaba) thought was a good thing to do.

    Narrated Abu Bakra: He reached the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)while he was bowing, so he (Abu Bakra) bowed before reaching the row. He mentioned that the Prophet and the prophet said to him, “May Allah increase your eagerness! But do not repeat” [Reported By Bukhari] And Abu Da’ud added: “He bowed before reaching the row then walked and joined the row”

    Best Guidance is the guidance of Allah

  54. Abul Layth says:

    A question arises, since the Rasul(saws) was there, present with the Sahabah, he(saws) was able to agree or disagree to a ‘new act’ which came about.

    Bismillah:

    true: In my view, you missed the point. Abu Sa’id did the act without the PRIOR PERMISSION of the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam). Again, there was no foundation for this act, hence the nabi ‘alayhis salam’s words: “وَمَا كَانَ يُدْرِيه

    Secondly, they did not ask him regarding the ruqya, but rather accepting the recital of the Qur’an – in this case the ruqya – for financial gain. This was the dispute, not regarding the ruqya with faatihah!

    so wouldn’t we have to be careful with regards to falling into bid’ah?

    It is according what it is. To establish whether or not it is “hasanah” one must first know the sunnah in order to recognize whether or not it contradicts what is authentically reported from the Nabi! Can the layman do that? Absolutely not! This takes doctor of divine law. That is why the scholars approached the Mujaddid of his time, Ibn Hajr Al-’Asqalaani regarding the permissibility of the bida’ah of milaad an nabi to which he stated:

    Imam Suyuti said, “Someone asked Ibn Hajar about commemorating the Mawlid. Ibn Hajar answered, ´Basically, commemorating the Mawlid is an innovation that has not been transmitted by the righteous Muslims of the first three centuries. However, it involves good things and their opposites, therefore, whoever looks for the good and avoids the opposites then it is a good innovation.´

    So the principle is “ask the people of knowledge, when one does not know.”

    Then to Musaa:

    there is nothing to suggest he made it up on the spot. The words of the Prophet ‘how did you know…’ – are too non-specific for such a tenuous deduction. He simply asked ‘how’! What if the practice was already well established.

    He did not say “how”. He said: وما أدراك أنها رقية؟

    What made you know that it [i.e. faatihah] was a ruqya?

    If it had been done prior such a question would not have been necessary, or even asked, as it would have been futile. The Nabi ‘alayhis salaam had not taught that faatihah was a ruqya, that is why he asked as to “what made him know” it. For it was not the Nabi who made him know it.

    Then the rest of your argument is based in sheer speculation. There is absolutely no proof at all, and we challenge you to bring forth such proof, that the Nabi had taught the Sahabah to use faatihah as ruqya prior to this incident. A single authentic narration please. Not only is it implied, it is the apparent understanding, you have no certain proof for otherwise.

    If he made this is up all by himself – isn’t it rather an unbelievable coincidence that he happened to choose the ‘sunnah’ method – and not, for e.g., say Allahu x4000/fast/recite surah yasin/dance about lke sufis chanting. You cannot just make this act up because there is nothing in fatiha to suggest that it heals. It would be like a sahabi randomly deducing, for e.g., that by fasting/giving sadaqa one day, his body would be purified of all disease for the next 5 years. If random things like this can just be made up and the Shari’ah can be conjured up like this, what on earth is the point of the hadith ‘whoever introduces something into our affar….’? You cannot just GUESS as to what is in Revelation-this knowledge comes from a Messenger

    What sunna method? The nabi had not done it before. As for dancing, read the articles regarding it and you shall see the Nabi allowed it. As for the introduction of an innovation into “this way of ours” it simply means that it does not contradict the principles of this way, and the principles of this way show clearly that it is permitted to innovate a good innovation in Islam as we have proven many times and as the scholars of old professed:

    http://seekingilm.com/archives/41

    More can be offered as well if need be.

    Nobody disputed the act’s permissibility or challenged him as would likely be the case if it was conjectural-recall how Umar would react if he suspected something was not from the Prophet; They went to the Prophet about the issue of payment, not legality of the act

    It was Umar who innovated into the deen of Allah!

    He said: نعم البدعة to an act the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam never did: bringing all the Muslims together in ONE SINGLE MASJID to make taraweeh! To this Ibn Hajr stated:

    “‘Umar said, “[What a] Fine innovation!” and in some narrations a (letter) ‘taa’ is added. The root meaning of innovation (bida’ah) is what is produced without precedent. It is applied in the law in opposition to the Sunna and is, in that case, blameworthy. Strictly speaking, if it is part of what is classified as commendable by the law then it is an excellent innovation (hasana), while if it is part of what is classified as blameworthy by the law then it is blameworthy (mustaqbaha), otherwise it falls in the category of what is permitted (mubaah). It can be divided into the five legal categories [(or rulings)Ahkaam Al-Khamsah)].

    Furthermore they did not dispute the act for there was nothing to dispute. There was no proof to forbid ruqya with faatihah.

    There is yet another example of Imam ‘Umar committing a bida’ah as quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Bidaaya,

    “Umar would pray Salatul ‘Ishaa’ with the people then enter his house and never cease praying until dawn, and he did not die except that he aquired the habit of fasting permanently.”

    Imam An-Nawawi affirmed this act as well,

    “Ibn Umar fasted permenatly (i.e. except the days of ‘eid and tashriq). This perpetual fast was his way and the way of his father, Umar ibn Al Khattab, ‘Aa’ishah, Abu Talha and others of the salaf as well as Ash-Shaafi’i and other scholars. Their position is that perpetual fasting is not offensive (makruh).” [Sharh Sahih Muslim]

    This act was not the done by the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam) nor was it his sunnah.

    Umar also installed the first Qaass of Islam, Tamim Ad-Daari, as is reported in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad. As’Saaib ibn Yazid stated about this act: “This was unprecendented in the time of the Nabi ‘Alayhis salaam and Abu Bakr.”

    It is more plausible & consistent that he had prior knowledge & learnt this from another sahabi such as Anas bin Malik/Aisha [spubs bukhari 5370, 5372 et al;]

    Has nothing to do with Faatihah being used as a ruqya. The premise being this act was not taught by the Nabi ‘Alayhis salaam, and that Abu Sa’id “made the act up” without prior consent from the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam. You’ve again missed the point.

    The Companions knew to practice ruqya only for scorpion bites, evil eye/magic, ear ailments & they had specific du’as (Bukhari al-fath 5675, 5750;) & Qur’anic verses (Fatihah, al-Mi’wadhatayn, Ayat al-Kursiy & Ikhlaas – without specific number of recitations) in the belief that Allah is the One Who heals if He so Wills

    Again, not faatiha. HE INNOVATED specific recital of FAATIHAH for ruqya.

    Finally, once again this act has foundation in the Sunnah; it is not an innovation into Revelation

    The Nabi ‘alayhis salaam had not taught it prior to this. Based upon the literal pseudo-salafi understanding, “No act can be done save for proof from the Qur’an and Sunnah.”

    There was no proof for this SPECIFIC act of FAATIHAH as a ruqya for scorpion/snake bites. Hence, the specific act was an innovated act, not done by the nabi ‘alayhis salaam prior, nor specifically taught by him.

    I agree that it has a premise, and that is why it is a bida’ah hasanah. Not specifically done by Him (‘alayhis salaam) prior to the act, yet the Sahaba deduced its permissiblity for there was nothing to contradict it from the sunnah.

    uthman’s 2nd adhan

    I know it hurts your baatil da’wah that Uthman performed a bida’ah hasanah. How could he do an act never done nor established by the Nabi and the two khalifs before Him (radhiya Allahu Anhu)? Who is he to innovate such a fantastic bida’ah in the deen of Allah ta’alaa?

    As-Saa’ib Ibn Yazid stated,

    Narrated As-Saib bin Yazid: In the life-time of the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar, the Adhan for the Jumua prayer used to be pronounced when the Imam sat on the pulpit. But during the Caliphate of ‘Uthman when the Muslims increased in number, a third Adhan at Az-Zaura’ was added. Abu ‘Abdullah said, “Az-Zaura’ is a place in the market of Medina.”

    also:

    Narrated As-Saib bin Yazid: The person who increased the number of Adhans for the Jumua prayers to three was Uthman bin Affan and it was when the number of the (Muslim) people of Medina had increased. In the life-time of the Prophet there was only one Muadh-dhin and the Adhan used to be pronounced only after the Imam had taken his seat (i.e. on the pulpit).

    [both in the book of Jumu'ah Salah in Bukhaari]

    Also reported by Az-Zuhri:

    حدثنا ابن علية عن برد الزهري قال كان الاذان عند خروج الامام فأحدث أمير المؤمنين عثمان على الزوراء ليجتمع الناس .

    Notice the word “fa-ahdath” – innovated!

    Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates regarding this that Abdullah ibn Umar called it a “bida’ah”.

    The narrations:

    حدثنا شبابة قال حدثنا هشيم بن الغاز عن نافع عن ابن عمر قال الاذان الاول يوم الجمعة بدعة

    حدثنا وكيع قال حدثنا بن الغاز قال سألت نافعا مولى ابن عمر الاذان الاول يوم الجمعة بدعة فقال ابن عمر بدعة

    Ibn Rajab stated, “Ibn Umar called it a bida’ah and he might have meant what his father meant with regard to night prayers in the month of ramadaan.” [jaami' ulum wal hikam]

    Act not done by the Nabi, nor taught by him = Bida’ah, hence Ibn Rajab’s comment on his “bida’ah” statement.

    Yes, dear sir, a good bida’ah indeed!

    Why don’t you mention the many bida’at of the Taabi’in as well?

    -Sa’d ibn Ibrahim Az-Zuhri fasting and reciting the entire Qur’an in one day every day, not the Sunnah of the Nabi (‘alayhis salaam).

    ['Ibar of Adh-Dhahabi, Yaaf'i in Mira't Al Janan, and others]

    -Sulaym At-Tujibi reciting the entire Qur’an 3 (some say 4) times in a day inside and outside of Salah. [An Nawawi in his Tibyaan, Ibn Kathir in his Bidayah and others]

    -Zaynul ‘Aabideen making 1000 raka’at daily until his death. Bida’ah! – [Imam Adh-Dhahabi in his 'Ibar]

    -Uways Al-Qarani saying “This is the nigt of ruku’” and making ruku’ until the end of the night. Or “this is the night of sajdah” and making sajdah until the end of the night. [Abu Nu'aym in his Al-Hilya]

    -Masruq ibn Al-’Ajda’ (saahib ibn mas’ud) sleeping only in his sajdah in Salah: Dhahabi in his ‘ibar and many others as well.

    -Sa’id ibn Jubair (and then Abu Hanifa) reciting the entire Qur’an in one raka’ah. Bida’ah! [An Nawawi's tibyaan]

    There are hundreds more examples filled in the books of men and biographies of the salaf. Whatever the case, the Nabi did not do these actions, nor did he promote them.

    Holding onto the Sunnah is holding onto the principles and laws of the deen of Allah ta’alaa. Part of this “way of ours” is that one can perform an innovated act as long as it does not contradict the principles of our law.

    here comes our sufi hero (dont get tired)..

    Grow up! and Salam!

  55. Abul Layth says:

    Ahmad Al-Hanbali, stick to the topic. None of what you stated has anything to do with this issue. The crap you saw some sufis doing has no affect on the validity of tasawwuf in our deen. How many “pseudo-salafis” blow up innocent people? How many “Muslims” rape people? How many “Muslims” drink? How many “Muslims” commit zinaa? Is that part of Islam? Is any of it?

    Just because someone does something does not mean that it reflects upon the manhaj/science/deen. Rather everything is to be judged by the inherent principles. SO please stop wasting your time, as well as ours, on posting your ridiculous experiences with Sufis.

    To prove my point: I have experienced the opposite of what you have from the Sufis:

    The Sunnah! Men performing dhikr at every chance they get. Men establishing sternly their 5 salawat, and the sunan preceding or following them. Men striving to draw near to Allah. Men who perform more Sunan than I have ever seen any pseudo-salafi perform, and I have met thousands. Men/women who work never to become angry, commit gheebah, do any haraam. Men who are repentant, ascetic, and free from need of the world. Men who avoid argumentation for fear of the results. Men who spend their time not on the internet, but seeking out the barakah in awraad and hizb of the Qur’an. Men who fight and struggle against the aggressors, nail and tooth, until they uplift the words of Allah.

    That is the Sufis I have seen and know. So get over your “experiential” baatilism. Read the books of Imam An Nawawi to see what tasawwuf is (such as his maqaasid) etc.

  56. Ahmad al_hanbali says:

    Assalamu Alaikum

    With respect brother you have go at pseudo-salafis on every opportunity.

    Have you evere asked you self why?

    If you did then you will know that why I have a go at so-call sufi. Pseudo Salafis (they are trying to stick to the sunnah..they may have error in their understanding due limited knowledge but not in their intention) are much better than so-call sufi (those commit shirk and bidah).

    The difference between me and you is brother I regonise the good sufi when I mention the bad sufi. To give a balance approch and you don’t when you mention salafis.

    I’M STICKING TO THE TOPIC PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF BAD SUFI IN ORDER THAT THEY DON’T FALL INTO ERROR WHICH I MENTIONED. AS WELL AS GOOD SUFI WHICH YOU AND I MENTIONED.

    Are all Salafi like pseudo-salafi?

    Let ME give you some good salafis name: Sheik bin Baz
    Skeik Al-Fawzan
    Sheik Uthaimim
    Sheik Abdur Rahman Al-Jibreen

    May Allah Guide Us

  57. Abul Layth says:

    With all due respect brother the “shaykhs” you have mentioned are deviant in creed. So I say yes let us have a look at the “salafis” you have mentioned. Ibn Baaz, the blind man who released the fatwa for the establishment of America in the arabian pennisula. The Imam of neo-kharijism as well as neo-muqaatilism, a man who innovated more heresy – particularly in his baatil explanation of ‘aqidah tahawiyyah wherein he disagreed with Ahlus Sunnah on several creedal points upon which Ijmaa’ of the Sunnis have rested for over 1000 years. Or Ibn Uthaymin, Allah yarhamhu, another Imam of neo-muqaatilism: http://seekingilm.com/archives/105
    . The rest are parrot neo-muqaatilis that have no part in the creed of Ahlus Sunnah and deviantly misguide the innocent ignorant Muslims. I ask Allah to bless them all with good Amin.

    As for your demented definitions of shirk, then you are simply parroting them from the khaariji Ibn Abdul Wahhab, a man who innovated in creed and adopted the way of the killing Muslims, imprisoning Ahlus Sunnah, and making Khuruj against the Khalifa. The pseudo-salafis that you have named have disregarded the consensus of Ahlus Sunnah regarding the permissibility of tawassul, and have committed the atrocious crime of takfeer upon the layman Muslims who have followed Imams such as Ibn Hajr, An Nawawi, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Shawkaani, Abu Yusuf, and many other mountains of knowledge in their ruling it permitted.

    You must think we here are little bengali Muslims, ‘Masjid pushovers’ who have never researched the ridiculous claims of your deviant forefathers in creed. We once waded in the pools of psuedo-salafi ignorance, and now, with Allah’s immense grace upon the SeekingIlm team, have realized the importance of clinging to the way of the Imams of Ahlus Sunnah, whom your comrades in deviance label “misguided” and “Deviant”.

    I am upon the deen of Imam An Nawawi who said:

    ثم يرجع إلى موقفه الأول قبالة وجه رسول الله صلى اله عليه وسلم ويتوسل به في حق
    نفسه، ويستشفع به إلى ربه سبحانه وتعالى

    [The pilgrim] should then face the shrine of the Messenger of Allah (s) , make him an intermediary [to Allah ], and intercede through him to Allah … (Majmu’ Sharh Al-Madhhab – Kitab Al-Hajj)

    , As-Subki, Munaawi, Ibn Hajr ‘Asqalaani, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Imam Ash-Shafi’i, Ibn Kathir – who allowed tawassul as well, Al-’Utbi http://seekingilm.com/archives/189, The great Hanbali Al-Mardawi who said regarding tawassul:

    “The correct position of the [Hanbali] madhhab is that it is permissible in one’s du`a to use as one’s means a pious person (saalih), and it is said that it is desirable (mustahabb). Imam Ahmad said to Abu Bakr al-Marwazi: ‘Let him use the Prophet as a means in his supplication to Allah .’” (Al-Insaf 2:456)

    Imam Ash-Shawkani who said in Tuhfat Adh-Dhaakireen:

    “And in this hadith [i.e. is proof for the permissibility of tawassul through the Prophet [s] to Allah , with the conviction that the [actual] doer is Allah , and that He is the Giver and the Withholder. What He wills is, and what He does not will, will never be.”

    and the rest of Ahlus Sunna prior to the advent of the deviant Ibn Taymiyyah, May Allah have mercy upon him.

    Jazaakum Allahu Khairan,
    Abul Layth

  58. Musa Ali says:

    That Umar innovated in religion is not true. BOTH tarawih in multiple congregations and behind 1 imam in 1 masjid has precedent in shari’ah; to narrate the ahadith would take up too much space – but they exist in the well known kutub-sittah, Hakim, Ahmad, Ibn Abi Shaybah, Faryaabi, ibn Nasr-most explicitly through Aisha. Hakim said in al-Mustadrak 1/440 that Umar merely revived the sunnah. Ibn Kathir mentioned that it was a linguistic use of the word in his tafsir. Abu Hanifa is quoted to have said, ‘..and umar did not do that of his own opinion, and neither was his action an innovation-he did not enjoin it except that there was a foundation for it with him and authorization from the Prophet [Sharh Mukhtar-quoted from sharh ibda li Ali Mahfuz]. Ibn Abd alBarr & others confirm the same.
    Uthman had precedent in doing what he did for the sake of maslaha mursala in the hadith of Muslim [2401 spubs muslim] – adhan to warn people of impending time for end of eating. Uthman made valid ijtihad & qiyas for the growing population by adding the adhan– there was a prophetic precedent. Now with loudspeakers the public good has gone and it’s better to return to the way of those better than uthman – rasulallah, Abu Bakr, Umar. Nevertheless – NOT a shar’i bid’ah
    The Innovations of misguidance are those which are in Revelation=Shari’ah= Qur’an & Sunnah since this is what amrinaa means in the hadith as in the ayat 47:26, 65:5, 44:1-5, 45:16-18 etc. So those which alter/distort/add/substract from the fabric of Shari’ah & its injunctions both in beliefs & actions – including making the general specific & vice versa; halal haram & vice versa; claiming reward/punishment for anything; the time/place/manner/type/number of actions. ALL these innovations are haram as they lead to tahrif or open the doors to it. These laws on bid’ah are self-preservation clauses.
    All linguistic/non-Shar’i innovations are usually synonymous with modernization and are judged by the shari’ah in the well known 5 categories. They do not alter the injunctions/prescriptions of the Qur’an/sunnah. Most of the examples of the salaf that you mention – several of dubious authenticity are still not bid’ah because they are not altering the shari’ah – in halal/haram; reward/punishment; making the general specific & vice versa; or in the time/place/manner/number/type of worship
    If any of these had said that their perpetual fasting was superior – then they would have legislated against the clear narrations which tell us about the best fasting of alternate days like Daw’ud. But otherwise their act is permissible since one can fast on any day except the well known ones.
    Reciting the qur’an in 1 rakah is not haram, nor a bid’ah – it’s precedence is the hadith ‘(after fatiha)…..then read whatever you wish’ [ibn hibban & others]
    These actions you mention are merely permissible but certainly not sunnatun-Nabi. They are also not bid’atu-shari’ah. Why do you never refer to the rebuking of companions when they altered the manner of worship in at least 3 instances I know of in Bukhari?
    By your ridiculous standards – what IS bid’a? Nothing! We KNOW that people will alter the sunnah, we know that there will be 72 baatil sects. If my da’wa to strict adherence of prophetic sunnah is batil – then you are just jahil. My da’wa, inshaAllah, is safe. Unlike yours – linking 2 unrelated actions and conjuring up rewards for them. Permissibility is one thing but dancing around like idiots claiming this ibadah!? This and the other legion things you all conjure. Principles of deen! What principles have the extreme sufis given us except hawaa! I wish I could have seen some of the sufis you describe above.
    Discussing ruqya & these is all about contextualizing things- it’s not really possible on a forum like this. May Allah guide us both to Haqq – we’re both amateurs. I wish you & I could love each other for the sake of Allah, esp. now when unity is so important.
    You should stop using names like pseudo-salafi and other such Kellerite words – or others will just call you pseudo-spiritual, pseudo-islamic, ahl-hawa. It just breeds enmity.Allahu musta’an. Assalamualikum

  59. Abul Layth says:

    The “linguistic” argument does not hold well when one contemplates the multiple reasons Umar used “bida’ah” for this act. The fact is the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam did not demand that the people come together in one masjid and make taraweeh, as Umar did. He instructed the people to make one jama’ah, an act the Nabi did not due. That is why he used the term bida’ah, that this act of unifying the Muslims for this specific prayer was not done by the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam. Yes, the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam did this Salah in jama’ah – and later stopped doing it, and yes it had a premise for it, and that is why it is a “good bida’ah”. The Nabi did not unify the Muslims in this Salah, command the people to do so etc.

    As for ‘Uthman (radhiya Allah Anhu), he did innovate in the law and was the first to do the act of the adhaan. This is the statement of the Sahaba and the taabi’in as we have shown above. It was a bida’ah hasanah! Because of the need for such – which you allude to, he had precedent in the law to innovate. Again, he did something new IN THE SHARI’AH by the principles of the shari’ah, as calling the adhaan is worship and by the pseudo-salafi standards every act of worship must have been done by the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam. The fact is it is clear that the Sahaaba believed that everything was permitted in the law unless proof could be established that it was haraam. Hence the Shafi’i principle:

    “The default status of things is indifference until the proof indicates prohibition” [al-Suyuti, Ashbah (Cairo 1998 ed. 1:166)] There are exceptions in the madh-hab, such as meat, life, sexual intercourse, property. The proof for this qaa’idah stems from the hadith:

    “Whatever Allah ta’ala made halal it is halal, and whatever He made haram is haram, and whatever He was silent about, it is a boon (`afwun), so accept from Allah the boon He is giving you, for Allah certainly is not going toforget anything.”

    What is interesting here is that this statement was said regarding an act of worship: Hajj. So it debunks the entire claim and abuse of the hadith of “bida’ah” by the pseudo-salafis.

    Bida’ah is allowed, as stated by Sultan Al-’Ulamaa’ Ibn Abdus Salaam and Ibn Hajr, as well as many others, as long as it does not contradict the principles of the law. It falls within the 5 ahkaam. We gave few of the hundreds of examples of the salaf doing acts of worship the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam never did.

    What is a bida’ah by my principles? It is what the scholars of Islam have defiined it as:

    “Bida’ah in terms of the law is everything innovated in contravention of the Lawgiver’s command and the latter’s specific and general proof.” [At-Tabyīn fī Sharh Arba’īn]

    Ibn Al-Jawzī defined misguided bida’ah as,

    “…whatever is blameworthy in contravening the foundations of the law”.

    There are examples of bida’at in our times, such as interrogating Muslims about their creed and manhaj as done by the pseudo-salafis. Ibn Abdus-Salaam wrote against Salat Ar-Raghaa’ib and deemed it an impermissible bida’ah because it contradicted principles of the law, though Ibn As-Salah and he had an entire debate about the issue. He also, as mentioned by Adh-Dhahabi instructed all of the masaajid to NOT call the iqaama right after the adhaan for maghrib, as it allowed time for the people to make the sunan, another example of a bida’ah that had taken root in his time. There are many other examples of bida’ah in our times such as praising the deviant kings and presidents on the minbar – a clear bida’ah as stated by many of the scholars. Such as forcing Muslims to stand literally ANKLE TO ANKLE – another bida’ah of misguidance.

    So do not lie upon me or others stating that:

    By your ridiculous standards – what IS bid’a? Nothing!

    It saddens me that you have to resort to lying in your desperate attempt to hold on to your baatil principles. And no, dear sir, you do not hold on to the sunnah, nor do you live by its principles. But your answer is not to me, it is to Allah and quite frankly I ask Allah to grant you good.

    Shaykh Nuh Keller, oh liar, does not use the term “pseudo-salafi” but rather “wahhabi”, a term many najdis have used for themselves in the past. We shall save such for another discussion however.

    As for my use of it, it is permitted in the law. As for calling me names, I don’t care :). You will not see me united with a pseudo-salafi anyhow, nor see may making salaah behind them, as I don’t want to have to repeat my Salah. Their creed is baatil, their principles are innovated, and they are khariji waste. I believe they are Muslims, but of the most deviant plague to hit the Ummah in 300 years. Lastly, I am not a sufi. So get over your non-seniscal baatil por favor.

    Oh and lastly, why do I never refer to the rebuking of the Sahaba for innovated acts the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam did not approve of? Because It is irrelevant to the argument. Why? The fact that these Sahaba did these acts without previously asking the Nabi ‘alayhis salaam is proof that they believed any act they did was halaal until proven otherwise. Its that simple. These incidents are proof for our plea, not against it.

    Jazaakum Allahu Khairan
    Abul Layth

  60. mustafa says:

    sidi abul layth thanks for deleting my post. Brother the more you continue with this sectarinism and hizbeeya the more we will all suffer

    wasalaam

  61. Abul Layth says:

    Your welcome broza. Yes I am being “Sectarian” towards the Sunnis. I’m not Sorry you don’t like it.

    Jazaakum Allahu Khairan

  62. Ahmad al-Hanbali says:

    Assalamu Alikum
    @ abu Layth

    I have nothing to say except that may Allah guide you & protect your tongue from miss use.

    As one word can put you in hellfire & one word can save you from it.
    May Allah help me follow the advice I`m giving you.
    Ameen

  63. Ali says:

    yeah ok..keller says ‘neo-salafi’(masud.co.uk) – i alluded to ‘kellerite words’…get over it. I didnt lie inshaAllah – it’s muqaatilis like you who developed these other terms. 6:108 is evidence that the permissible isn’t always appropriate -just like your fiery hot-head muqatili disposition

    i think i’ll stick to Abi Hanifa, Hakim, Ibn Abdul Barr, Ibn kathir’s, shatibi’s et al. understanding of linguistic innovation.much more convincing, more legally sound (no slippery slope), more safe, more salafi….lol bro, you’re quite funny (even though you’ve probably never smiled in your life) the way you think something, infact e’thing, supports your madhab even when clearly it slaps it in the face. Oh..and how everybody ‘misses the point’ except you :)

    thanks to you in this little discourse – though not convincing to me – the innovations you mention are either linguistic or just novel ways of sinning – not the innovations of misguidance & tahrif

    Anyhow, wish you well. just reference the hajj hadith..
    wassalam

  64. Abul Layth says:

    lol@I’m a muqaatili. I’ll respond later to your post.

    Thanks for the advice Ahmad. I ask Allah ta’alaa to bless you with immense good. Amin

  65. Musa Ali says:

    lol @ you’re a muqatili too..im sure its not true; but it’s a taste of your own linctus!!

  66. Abul Layth says:

    The title, you have so earned, “liar” was warranted due to your claim that “nothing” was a bida’ah to me. It is the same ludicrous stupidity you draconian “off-the-manhaj” pseudo-salafis keep parroting. So get over it (in the words of Mr. Ali). I clarified what my stance on bida’ah was, and you can’t seem to open your mind up enough to digest such explanations. For the record, I do believe many acts are bida’ah sayyi’ah. Just as I believe many acts are bida’ah hasanah, as stated by the scholars of old.

    Also for the record, I have explained time and time again that the term “muqaatiliyyah” was not invented by me, but by Imam Abu Yusuf. The same principles, tafsir, creed, forwarded by the pseudo-salafis of this era were stated by muqaatil and we have displayed such examples elsewhere. Such is also not “kellerite” terminology. Pseudo and neo are two seperate prefixes, so you also “spoke an untruth” there as well. Though all of that is irrelevant to the topic. Just another smoke screen for your paperthin argument.

    A taste of my own medicine would have been to call me an “asha’ri” or a “maaturidi” or even a “jahmi” as the spiritually perverted label the Asha’ris. Whatever the case, all of what you keep masking your claims with is baatil.

    I’ll be responding further to your claims regarding Umar ibn Al-Khattab in a post soon insha’allah.

  67. Musa Ali says:

    Abu Layth…hold your beans; enough of this acidity…
    you havent referenced the hajj hadith
    please prove the Abu Yusuf claim
    (btw…which are you, ashari or maturidi?)Im not gonna call you jahmi (but you are premenstrual alot of the time)
    umar al khattab…look forward to it

  68. Abul Layth says:

    You are one funny bro. I’ll bother with you later. Busy sorry.

  69. Abu Zayd says:

    Abu Layth, you have to understand that ‘Omar (ra) was a companion of the prophet (Salalaahu ‘Alayhi Wa Salam) and that the prophet attested to the fact that he was upon guidance –that’s why he was put in charge to the lead the whole ummah. Hence, if ‘Omar gathered the people of up for tarawih, then that shows that it was something he saw from the prophet (salalahu ‘alayhi wa salam) and that he was not innovating something new into the religion. My point is that some sufi shayk cannot start making up his own type of dhikr because it will amount bid’ah and every bid’ah is misguidance while every misguidance is in the hellfire. In summary, ‘Omar had authority when he joined tarawih with the congregation, does your shayk have authority?
    wassalam

  70. Ibn Umer says:

    Salam.

    Hot air.
    All hot air.

    People are objecting to the invention of new forms of worship [within the paramenters set by the shari'a of course], in spite of the 3 examples of Sahaba I posted???
    I shall repost them:


    عن معمر عن عاصم بن سليمان عن أبي عثمان النهدي قال : كان سلمان يعلمنا التكبير، يقول : كبروا الله، الله أكبر، الله أكبر مراراً، اللهم أنت أعلى وأجل من أن تكون لك صاحبة، أو يكون لك ولد، أو يكون لك شريك في الملك، أو يكون لك ولي في الذل، وكبره تكبيراً، الله أكبر تكبيراً، اللهم اغفر لنا، اللهم ارحمنا، ثم قال : والله لتكتبن هذه ولا تترك هاتان وليكونن هذا شفعاء صدق لهاتين .

    حدثنا مسكين بن بكير، أنبأنا ثابت بن عجلان، عن القاسم بن عبد الرحمن قال: كان لأبي الدرداء نوى من نوى العجوة حسبت عشرًا أو نحوها في كيس، وكان إذا صلى الغداة أقعى على فراشه فأخذ الكيس فأخرجهن واحدة واحدة يسبح بهن، فإذا نفدن أعادهن واحدة واحدة، كل ذلك يسبح بهن، قال: حتى تأتيه أم الدرداء فتقول: يا أبا الدرداء إن غداءك قد حضر فربما قال ارفعوه فإني صائم….”

    قال أبو هريرة: إني لأستغفر الله وأتوب إليه كل يوم اثني عشر ألف مرة….

    All three are authentic accounts, and they show the respective Sahabi innovating in one of the following:
    1) Using an invented words
    2) Using an invented mode of doing dhikr
    3) Setting a certain number of times to do a dhikr.

    The Sheikhs Ibn Taymiyya and Ibn Baz are also on record for having ‘innovated’ in dhikr.
    The former used to recite Surah Fatiha after Fajr over and over, gazing at the sky, until Shuruq.
    The latter suggested reading Surah Al-Nas in the post-salat dhikr.
    As far as I know, both are not found in the Sunnah – but I am ok with both because they are both promoted by the general precepts of the Shari’ah.

    By the way, I think it’s more useful to engage in dhikr than to argue about dhikr.

    And Allah knows best.

    ws

  71. mustafa says:

    ibn umer good post. something to ponder. I contemplated that about ibn taymiya rahimahullah reciting al fatiha after fajr over and over. He considered it a superior dhikr.

  72. Ibn Umer says:

    And it is, indeed, a beautiful dhikr. I mean, just think about the actual words.

    Shaykh Nuh’s teacher used to say, “Al-Fatihatu fatihatun” – “The Fatiha opens up”.

  73. Musa Ali says:

    salam Ibn Umer,

    i believe al-nas is prescribed after fajr & maghrib as a prophetic dhikr – it’s sourced in hisnul muslim (to Abu Dawud & Nasai, and maybe tirmidhi too)

    there is a general encouragement in the sunnah to make dhikr after fajr till sunrise – reciting the best surah from Qur’an repeatedly is entirely appropriate; but ibn taymiyyah never attached a specific no. to the adhkar because he had no right to – i believe both actions have roots in sunnah

    the narration with abu hurayrah is weak is it not?

    but i definitely agree with your final statement. ws

  74. Musa Ali says:

    dear abu layth
    please refernce
    “Whatever Allah ta’ala made halal it is halal, and whatever He made haram is haram, and whatever He was silent about, it is a boon (`afwun), so accept from Allah the boon He is giving you, for Allah certainly is not going toforget anything.”
    jazakullah bi khair

  75. ibn Umer says:

    there is a general encouragement in the sunnah to make dhikr after fajr till sunrise – reciting the best surah from Qur’an repeatedly is entirely appropriate; but ibn taymiyyah never attached a specific no. to the adhkar because he had no right to – i believe both actions have roots in sunnah

    Let’s try to isolate and identify the crux of the issue. It seems the issue (to you) is not the dhikr itself (i.e. why Surah Fatihah), but rather the attachment of a number.
    Akhi, that is faulty reasoning. Just as attaching a number is a ‘bid’a', so too is attaching a time period to a particular dhikr.
    And if you disagree, there’s always the statement of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyya where he encourages saying ‘Ya Hayyu Ya Qayyum, La ilaha illa Anta, birahmatika astagheeth’ 40 times, between the sunnah and fard of Fajr. Something that is not found in the sunnah in form or number.
    Also, he said there is no problem repeating a surah (he uses Ikhlas as an example), in a round on a misbaha. In this case, the modality, the content, as well as the number are all bid’a.

    I have referenced both of these examples elsewhere in this blog.

    the narration with abu hurayrah is weak is it not?

    Nope. Sidi Abul Layth has gone over the takhreej in another thread.

  76. mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Im interesting in knowing about Shaykh ibn taymiya rahimahullah and his manhaj on this issue. On one hand he is against saying Allah repetively. I know his reasonings is because it is not accompanied with Ya.

    But even if we could accept this, it would be quite hard to accept many of some sufi practices. Such as Hadra and other things. Then would come issues of istighatha etc. All these doubtfull things are best to stay clear from. But i see ya ikhwan many Sufis calling to these controversial things.

  77. Ibn Ahmad says:

    Does it even make sense to be against saying Allah repetitively? I’m just asking! Simply because it’s such a Beautiful Name that simply uttering it fills the heart with love and tranquility.

    I mean aren’t there narrations to the effect that the only remnant that will remain from Islam in the final days will be the name of Allah (ta’ala) himself and that repeating this name may very well be sufficient for eternal salvation.

    Man I wish I had access to that hadith.

  78. tilmeedh says:

    Hadra.. istighatha… dua… prayer… fasting… believing in Allah.. best to stay away from RELIGION!

    Akhi, what you stated in your post was a mouthful.
    It’s best to take things one at a time and scrutinize them under the lens of the shari’a.

    Insha Allah no slippery slopes, no hasty-, and no sweeping-generalizations.

  79. sister says:

    salams,

    i feel you should ask your sheikh if you should post something like this for general audience and argue with others about it.

  80. Abul Layth says:

    “Your Sheikh”?

    Sister, Seekingilm.com has no connection, at all with any “Shaykh”. Some accuse this site of having a connection with Shaykh Nuh, which is simply not true. We discussed this in another post:

    http://seekingilm.com/archives/297

    Secondly, anyone can buy this material online. They can purchase his tapes/CDS etc at: http://www.thetraditionalpath.com/index.php?main_page=products_new

    Thirdly, the material in this thread, as well as throughout the site that may quote Shaykh Nuh – whether it be critical or supportive – is for academic purposes only. It is not for profit or material benefit.

    Thank you for your concern,

    Abul Layth

  81. From Zen to Islam says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaykum.

    I am an ex-Zen Buddhist who converted to Islam. This “Dhikr of the Supreme Name” sounds nearly identical to Zen Buddhist chanting. When I first became Muslim, I was deeply attracted to Sufism because its doctrine is similar to Zen. However, after studying it deeply I learned its greatest secret and was astonished by what it really teaches. I now know Sufism isn’t Islam, as a matter of fact it is the very opposite. It is a mixture and amalgamation of several pagan philosophies and mystery religions that adopted an outer Islamic shell in order to escape persecution and preserve their faith.

    I deeply respect Shaykh Keller (may Allah protect him) but he doesn’t know what Sufism really teaches at the highest levels. There are different degrees. The higher the degree, the further away you get from Islam. It’s conditioning and brainwashing and they only allow the choice candidates to be allowed access to their true teachings. Shaykh Nuh and others like him are only at the dhikr stage (where it’s still Islam but with some innovation mixed in). They’ll never be advanced to the highest stages of Sufism where the hidden knowledge (kufr) is taught.

    “Sufism is a shameful deception which begins with Dhikr and ends with Kufr. Its outward manifestation appears to be piety, but its inward reality forsakes the Commandments of Allah.”
    - Shaykh Abu Bakr al Jaza’iri

    I swear by Allah that the above words are true.

    Fi aman Allah.

  82. Abul Layth says:

    Bismillah,

    Wa’alaykum Salam:

    Dear “Zen”,

    This “Dhikr of the Supreme Name” sounds nearly identical to Zen Buddhist chanting.

    Firstly, Having similarities to other religions does not disprove the validity of Tasawwuf at all. The jews chant and recite their book, as do Muslims. The Jews greet with “Shalom” and the Muslims with “Salam”. The Muslims, in unison, recite “Amin”, just as some christian sects do in their prayers.

    We have shown that doing dhikr of Allah is unrestrictidely permitted, save for that which CONTRADICTS the authentic Sunnah of the Nabi. Please read the following articles:

    http://seekingilm.com/archives/41
    http://seekingilm.com/archives/162

    However, after studying it deeply I learned its greatest secret and was astonished by what it really teaches. I now know Sufism isn’t Islam, as a matter of fact it is the very opposite. It is a mixture and amalgamation of several pagan philosophies and mystery religions that adopted an outer Islamic shell in order to escape persecution and preserve their faith.

    I am uncertain where you have received your information regarding tasawwuf at, but you are blatantly incorrect.

    Shaykh-ul-Islam Imam An-Nawawi describes tasawwuf as:

    “The basic rules of the way of Sufism are five:

    (1) having Godfearingness privately and publicly, (2) living according to the Sunnah in word and deed, (3) indifference to whether others accept or reject one, (4) satisfaction with Allah Most High in scarcity and plenty, and (5) turning to Allah in happiness or affliction.

    1. Godfearingness is attained by scrupulousness and uprightness;

    2. Following the Sunnah is attained through caution and good character;

    3. Indifference to others’ acceptance or rejection is attained through patience and trust in Allah;

    4. Satisfaction with Allah is attained through contentment with what one has and submission to the will of Allah;

    5. Turning to Allah Most High is attained by gratitude to Him in happiness and taking refuge in Him in affliction.”

    [Al-Maqasid pg 96]

    Also, to attest to the greatness of this religious science please read: http://seekingilm.com/archives/157

    The said article has many quotes of the earliest Muslims attesting to what tasawwuf truly stands for.

    As for Shaykh Nuh Keller, qaddas Allahu Sirrh, then it is unfortunate that you are ignorant of his status amongst the Sufis. He has taken the Shadhili Tariqah from qualified masters, such as Abdur-Rahman Ash-Shaghuri of Damascus and has been in contact with many others. He was granted the permission by Shaykh Abdur-Rahman to guide the Muslims upon this tariqah, i.e. he has seen and experienced the end result.

    What is the end result of Tasawwuf? Ihsan! It is to see the world, and all that it is, as manifestations of Allah’s supreme glory and magnificence. It is to the see through the creation, the created – and this is not meant literally – but within the spiritual plane.

    There is nothing hidden about tasawwuf. It is a science transcribed in works of the masters, and lived by the awliyaa’. It is the application – the realization – if divine law.

    As for the words of Abu Bakr Al-Jaza’iri, then they hold no weight in the eyes of any objective academic. On several occasions he has lied about the Muslims and their tasawwuf, and such has been responded to in several works, one work has been translated:

    http://islamicbookstore.com/b8387.html

    Who is he in comparison to the master of the scholars, Imam Ash-Shafi’i who said:

    Imam Shafi’i said: “[Be both] a faqih and a sufi[sufiyyan ]: do not be only one of them, Verily, by Allah’s truth, I am advising you sincerely.” (al-Shafi`i in Diwan, p. 47 see also: Diwan p. 66 where Imam Shafi’i gives the advise to be both a faqih and sufi).

    The Mujtahid Shafi’i, Imam As-Suyuti – a man who mastered all of the sciences – said:

    “Tasawwuf in itself is a most honorable knowledge. It explains how to follow the Sunna of the Prophet and to leave innovation, how to purify the ego… and submit to Allah truly… I have looked at the matters which the Imams of Shari`a have criticized in Sufis, and I did not see a single true Sufi holding such positions. Rather, they are held by the people of innovation and the extremists who have claimed for themselves the title of Sufi while in reality they are not…” [Ta’yid al-haqiqa al-`aliyya wa-tashyid al-tariqa al-shadhiliyya]

    Of course, though, you must know more than the Imams of the Muslims! The renewers of Islam, the mountains of knowledge, the inheritors of the Prophets!

    La Hawla wa La Quwwata illa Billah

    -Abul Layth

  83. Alfesani says:

    Assalamualaykum
    The way pseudo salafis talk about tasawwuf is similar to the kuffar haters who speak ill of Islam. They always misquote and choose a few misguided muslims as evidence against islam, sadly some muslims like zen apply the same methodology while judging sufism or sufis.It’s true some sufi claimers have abused this science by introducing reprehensible innovations in it,but so also is the case with other aspects of the deen, namely, aqeedah,fiqh and even hadith science.

    As far as hidden knowledge is concerned, i dont deny Allah can grant the knowledge of the unseen in some amounts to His chosen people. Hidden knowledge is not for ordinary muslims like us, we dont practise tasawwuf in search of hidden knowledge,but to deny it or to say that hidden knowledge is kufr is totally unacceptable.The people who have access to such spiritual knowledge dont reveal it to their people because people owing to their low level of understanding wont accept it and so this knowledge is not for all, just like hadith of the Prophet(peace unto him), in Bukhari, narrated by Abu Huraira, “The Prophet poured into my heart two kinds of knowledge, one of which I have revealed and another which if I were to reveal they would cut my throat.”

  84. mustafa says:

    as-salaamu alaykum,

    I am very attracted to sufism and have been for a while. But my heart is never satisfied with it. Espesially when i try to get a taste of ‘true’ tasawwuf I always find people praising individuals who say its ok to call upon the saints. I know what your going to say (its not worship its just calling) well I dont really accept the excuse but the point is that makes me very weary and reminds me of my christian days.

    Tasawwuf seems beautiful, but I dont see why we have to do practices that are not already taught from the Quraan and Sunnah to reach ihsan and happiness. Isnt the Quran and Sunnah enough? Let us suppose that i agree with good bidah etc.. Why cant we just accept what is already prescribed in the Quran and sunnah?

    wasalaam

  85. Abul Layth says:

    If your heart does not feel right with dhikr in a group, struggling to subdue the nafs, and training the heart, then tasawwuf is not for you.

    Everything done in tasawwuf has a premise in the law. It is the law in practice!

  86. From Zen to Islam says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaykum.

    “All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors.”
    - Oscar Wilde

    Dear Sir,

    Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller is a Westerner of European descent and a devout Muslim. He can’t be trusted by them. They won’t allow him access to the greatest secret that they’ve kept hidden for generations. If he knew what they really taught, he would speak out against them and expose them. However, he would be silenced before he could do so because whoever breaks their vows of silence are assasinated. Only those who have gone beyond the pale of Islam are allowed to learn it. You may not believe me, but I swear by the Lord of all that exists that what I say is true.

    What Sufism teaches is no different from what Freemasons, Zionists, and other secret societies believe.

    In The Sufis, Idries Shaw tells us there is an Arab origin for the European witches: “Who brought the witches to the West? In the medieval form, from which most of our information derives, undoubtedly the Aniza tribe.”

    Pointing to evidence like the similarities between the witches circle and the circular dance of the medieval dervishes, Arab words used in witches’ spells, and the use of hallucinogenic plants in both systems, Shaw puts forth a reasonable argument that modern witches can find at least a part of their origin in a group founded by Abu el-Atahiyya (748–828):

    His circle of disciples, the Wise Ones, commemorated him in a number of ways after his death. To signify his tribe, they adopted the goat, cognate with his tribal name (Anz, Aniza). A torch between goat horns (“the devil” in Spain as it later became) symbolized for them the light of illumination from the intellect (head) of the “goat,” the Aniza teacher. His wasm (tribal brand) was very much like a broad arrow, also called an eagle’s foot. This sign, known to the witches as the goosefoot, became the mark for their places of meeting. After Atahiyya’s death before the middle of the ninth century, tradition has it that a group from his school migrated to Spain, which had been under Arab rule for over a century at that time. — I. Shaw, The Sufis

    The Saudi, Kuwaiti, and Bahraini royal families all descend from the Aniza tribe who worshiped a goat god with two horns and a torch between its head. It’s no wonder they’re so closely aligned with the Crusader West and Zionist Israel because they all worship Shaytan as their god. This Arab tribe was also the father of European witchcraft. This is why witches used a lot of Arabic terms in their rituals. When the Knights Templar occupied Palestine, they were accused of worshiping “Baphomet”. Baphomet was an idol in the form of a chopped off bearded man’s head. Today Baphomet is shown as a goat head with two horns and a torch between its head – exactly like the Aniza tribe’s symbol. Baphomet was a corruption of the Arabic word “Abu Fahmah” which means “Father of Understanding”. The Knights Templar mistakingly misread the ending “h” as “t”, dropped the a from abu, and then pronounced it as “Baphomet” [Bafomet]. Some of the heads that the Knights Templar worshiped included the heads of kafir Arabs that tried to destroy Islam. I know two of the heads they worshiped:

    1) Abu Jahl (whose name used to be Abu Hakam “Father of Wisdom”) . The Prophet Muhammad called him the Pharaoh of our Ummah. The Pharaoh claimed to be God. Abu Jahl rejected Islam because of his “intellect” – he believed himself to be wiser than the Prophet Muhammad. That is why the Muslims renamed him Abu Jahl “Father of Ignorance”. Abu Jahl was later killed and his head was chopped off.

    2) Mansur al Hallaj (A Sufi who declared “Ana al-Haqq” – I am the Truth (God).” He also used to say “There is a god in heaven and a god here on earth” which is the same as the Hermetic and Kabbalist saying “As above, so below.” al-Hallaj was crucified and beheaded. His head was preserved, while his body was burnt to ashes and scattered.

    Furthermore I shall prove to you why Sufism isn’t Islam:

    3) The word “Sufi” doesn’t come from the word Tassawuf. It actually comes from the Greek word “Sophia” which means wisdom. Sophia is often depicted in the form of a cosmic female/mother goddess. They worship wisdom.

    4) When Ibn ‘Arabi speaks of “Muhammad”, he doesn’t mean Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullah, the Final Prophet and Messenger. He really means the cosmic “Muhammad” that is the “perfected human being” (demigod, god in human flesh, divine manifestation) that he believes anybody can become.

    5) Dhul-Nun al-Misri was the actual father of Sufism as we know it. His name means “holder of the fish”. The fish is symbolic for Pisces – the 12th sign that ends the Zodiac before a new age begins. The 13th sign that comes after it Ophiuchus which is the serpent. The serpent represents Shaytan. (On the back of the US Dollar Bill, you will find 13 blocks on the pyramid with the eye of the Dajjal floating above it. 13 stars, 13 arrows, etc. America was founded originally with 13 colonies. Above the eye it says Annuit Coeptis which means “He has favored our undertakings.” Below the pyramid it says Novus Ordo Seclorum meaning “A new order of the ages.” They are seeking to establish a New World Order where they “trascend” religion and the only religion that’s preventing their lifelong dream from being realized is Islam. They want to establish a material paradise here on earth.) Dhul-Nun taught with hieroglyphics – the writing and symbols of the Pharaohs.

    6) Mansur al-Hallaj said that his greatest teachers were Shaytan and Fir’awn.

    He wrote:

    “If you do not recognize God, at least recognize His sign, I am the creative truth – Ana al-Haqq – because through the truth, I am eternal truth. My friends and teachers are Iblis (Satan) and Pharaoh.”

    According to the Bible, Shaytan was the one who came in the form of a serpent and tempted Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge which contained knowledge hidden from humanity by God. Shaytan temped Eve to eat from this tree, which she did and then gave to her husband eventually causing their downfall and expulsion from Jannat:

    The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
    [Genesis 3:4-5]

    These kuffar believe that Satan was good and only trying to help man gain knowledge and become a god, while they claim that God Himself is evil for withholding this knowledge from man. They think that God feared that man would become greater than He! Audhubillah, may God forgive me for even saying this but this is what they believe. That’s why these kuffar want to destroy all of God’s Laws in what they call “freedom” – refusing to submit to God’s Will and instead do whatever they want. They mean freedom from God, His Religion, and His Will! Freedom like what Shaytan offered Adam and Eve but only ended up deceiving them! That’s why they keep their true teachings hidden and secret and only allow the elite to learn whom they can trust and who will help them in their cause of destroying religion. Just like God hid knowledge from humanity, they mimic Him by hiding their true teachings from the public. On the other hand, Islam has nothing to hide because anybody can just open up the Qur’an and see what we teach.

    Fir’awn was a pantheist who claimed to be God:

    But [Pharaoh] belied and disobeyed;
    Then he turned his back, striving hard (against Allah).
    Then he gathered his people and cried aloud,
    Saying: “I am your lord, most high!”
    [The Qur'an 21:24]

    Why do you think they have pyramids, obelisks, and other ancient Egyptian monuments everywhere? Why do you think Dhul Nun taught with hieroglyphics? Why have Sufis been accused of believing in pantheism and practicing magic? It’s because they follow the religion of the Pharaoh! The religion of the Pharaoh which was built upon pantheism teaching that everything is God, which is why al-Hallaj said Pharaoh spoke the truth when he cried out “I am your lord, most high!” In order to escape persecution and total destruction, they invented codes, symbols, and passwords which they taught only to the initatiated. Their teachings today survive in Freemasonry, Kabbalah, Sufism, and other such teachings. They worship the sun which is the center of the universe. To them it symbolizes man being the center of the universe. Many pagan societies practiced sun worship and sun worship is synonymous with worshipping Shaytan. That’s why Rasulallah (saws) warned us that the two horns of Shaytan, in another narration he said the SUN (he himself identified sun worship as Satan worship) would arise from Najd. The Saudi royal family who descends from the Aniza tribe has taken as Riyadh in Najd as their capital. (Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab himself was a great scholar but he and his followers the Ikhwan were used unknowingly by the Saudi satanic family in their plot to destroy Islam. Later on the Saudis assembled government scholars and massacred the Ikhwan for opposing their un-Islamic lifestyle and system.) Shaytan’s name in Latin is Lucifer which means “the light bringer”. They believe he brings the light of the wisdom to the world which they say is in darkness. To them everything is found in opposites. They believe order comes out of chaos (which is why they have engineered nearly all of the conflicts and wars of the past century.) They believe darkness of kufr is light, while the light of iman is darkness. Their thinking is extremely dangerous and perverted. Their god is also a triune one – 3 in one. Look up Jahbulon which is a 3-headed pagan god they worship with a spider’s body. Allah in the Qur’an compares idolatry to a spider’s web which is the weakest of homes and their false pagan god has a spider’s body too! Subhanallah. That’s why Ibn Arabi wrote in his poem “The beloved is 3 yet 1. Many things appear as 3, but are in reality 1.” The sun has 3 cycles – it rises in the morning, it stays in the afternoon, and sets in the evening. Compare the Christian myth of the crucixion to the winter solstice (where the sun rises for 3 days until it’s “born again” on December 25th – the same date as Christmas). No wonder Christians worship on SUNday and follower a SOLAR calendar.

    4) What does “Hu” (He) mean? Why do Sufis start off chanting normal dhikr formulas, but as they get more advanced just chant “Allah, Allah”, then finally just start chanting “Hu”? Here is the reason why.

    Look at this picture of Baphomet:

    http://www.bart666.com/assets/baphomet.png

    Compare it to the Naqshbandi and Shadhili calligraphy of the phrase “Hu”:

    http://www.superluminal.com/cookbook/images/hu.gif

    Notice the torch between its head symbolizing the illumination of wisdom and the two horns near the sides. “Knowledge is power.” – Sir Francis Bacon (occultist, magician, founder of modern science, man behind the colonization of America, and the real writer of Shakespeare’s works.)

    So the name Hu (He) that they keep on chanting is nothing but the name of Shaytan!

    That is all I can say. Oh brother, save yourself and warn others! Please read the book “The Sufis” by Idries Shah. You will never look at this world the same way again, insha’Allah. I know you have a pure heart and all you seek is the Truth, so I pray that Allah reveals to you the reality of what Sufism really is. Ameen.

    Fi aman Allah.

    “Deep in the sea are riches beyond compare.
    But if you seek safety, it is on the shore.”
    [Rose Garden of Sa'di]

  87. Usooli says:

    assalamu’alikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

    my respected and dear brother “from zen to islam”,

    while what you have mentioned of some similiarities might be true with regards to some sectors who falsely ascribed themselves to tasawuff, but the reality is that the true tasawuff has nothing to do with this. Yes there is a heterodox tasawuff of the type represented by al-hallaj, as some claim, but there is also an orthodox one that of for examples of the chains of Junayd and al-Jilani, and that of the Muhammadi ones from khidr, that are strongly anti-pantheistic, who hold that good deeds, as perscribed by the Quran and Sunnah, should be maintained and sins avoided at all stations, including the highest levels of yaqeen/ihsan, whose goals are to have the love of Allah above everything else. They have chain of teachers that go back to one of the 4 caliphs, and from them end with the Prophet(saws).
    They are the foremost to express Allah’s monotheism and His non resemblence to the creation(tangible and in-tangible), and where some of them mentioned about itihad or unity with God, then they actually refered to the heart’s will of the person being on par with want Allah wants of reliance upon Him, of obedience, and of love.
    And this they have evidence from the Quran and sunnah for it, where the famous hadith that speaks about when Allah loves someone, then He is his eyes, hands, feet, …., and also the ayah of the Quran and those who struggle for Him then He guides them to His ways, and the hadith of the Prophet(saws) that the heart of mumin has God’s light and from it he sees some of things of the unseen and knows of the unknown and etc..

    Even the likes of Ibn Arabi and Ash-Sha3rani, (whom people accuse of pantheism falsely based on some heavilty distorted books like fusoos al hikam that have statements falsely ascribed to them), clearly explained this in their works such as futuhat al makkiyya, and mentioned in their own explicit words the impossibility of a Qadeem ( a beginningless) coming into a literal(essence) unity (hulool / itehad) with a hade’ith( or something that came in existence), and used to criticize those of false sufis who professed this or viewied its possibility, and refered that pantheism leads away from understanding God’s reality, and in fact ibn Arabi refered pantheism on par with tajseem/anthromorphism.
    When he talked about insan al kameel or Muhammad(saws) he did not refer him as a demi-god, but rather what he mentioned was that one should copy and adopt the manners of Prophet(saws) in totally, his outer and interior qualities, and thus become very close to him such that you see him(saws) in your dreams and awake stages often, and so once the person attains some of qualities of Prophet’s heart, then He will truely feel Allah’s beauty and will taste Ihsan in the best of fashions, way different than what is acquired of taste in the heart of another ordinary individual, and this the orthodox sufis have proof from the Quran and Sunnah where Allah says that if they claim they love God, then they should follow you and God will love them, and that none would believe unless Allah and His prophet are beloved to Him, and when one adopts the manners of a people then he is one of them.
    it is authentically reported from Abul Abbas al Mursi that he severely rebuked those who claimed pantheism from amongst the false sufis.

    So even if it were assumed for arguement’ sake, that those in the “higher degrees of tasawuff ” initiate with those in the lower ranks, the rites of apparent worship of Allah, and seeking interior closeness, in the beginning and use this over time as brainwash to make those below them get into satan worship, and abandoning islam, then this arguement falls for many reasons,

    Firstly, the orthodox sufis main concern is tawakal/reliance on Allah, where the whole dedication/trust of the hearts and limbs are directed towards Him , so let us say once whole concern of the mureed is towards God, then this automatically shuts Shaytan off for good, as Allah says in His book that Shaytan stays away from those who rely on Him(swt).

    Secondly, the whole path of the Sufis is engaging in Allah’s continuous obedience, when this happens you reach a point when Shaytan becomes totally hopeless with you, as the hadeeth of the Prophet(saws) says that as the person does good, white spots cover his heart, and so when these spots fill it, no affliction is to have an effect on this person (in the evil sense), as long as the earth and sky remain(till qiyamah)- meaning in other words the heart of the person gains sheilds of lights that would prevent any temptation of sin to come even nearer to the individual.

    The orthodox sufis mention Allah’s name,remember Him, and recite the Quran, and these all as the hadeeth mention causes a sheild around the heart for the shaytan not to approach, and it is well known that Satan runs away from Allah’s name being revoked. And the dhikr practices, chanting Allah’s names etc. , have their roots in the Prophet(saws) sunnah.

    So even if the teacher tried to astray his students, he fails since he is using measures/tools that causes the eradiction of the ultimate evil goal.

    Satan through sins wish to cause worry, fear, pain, sadness amongst mankind, out his evny for childern of Adam, whereas in contrary orthodox sufis hold to Allah obedience and stay away from sinfulness till the end, even if they experience highest of yaqeen, as ibn taimiyya mentions, and obedience of Allah, reliance upon Him and loving Him, bring nothing but tranquility, peace, happiness, and stability to the person, which shaytan doesnt want.

    A house divided against itself never stands.

    And i conclude this with sufis fighting those proven to be freemasons and working for the new world order, the sufis of the likes of salahudeen al ayubbi fought the knight templars, sufis of africa, their shaykhs and mureeds, were the foremost and the pioneers who stood against colonialism of freemason Europe, Click this link to learn more:

    http://www.dar-sirr.com/warrior_siants.html
    and the famous sanusis, a khidri-muhammadi tariqah, are of many examples were tasawuff stood in the way of the new world order, with men, resources, and sword.

  88. Abul Layth says:

    What is interesting here is that this statement was said regarding an act of worship: Hajj. So it debunks the entire claim and abuse of the hadith of “bida’ah” by the pseudo-salafis.

    The issue of Hajj being the context was mentioned here:

    http://www.livingislam.org/k/op_e.html

    by Sidi G.f Haddad. I searched every major work, as well as minor work I could trying to find such context, yet to no avail. So, I asked Shaykh G.F. Haddad on his forums to which he stated:

    My Question:

    > You stated at the following link:
    > http://www.livingislam.org/k/op_e.html the following;
    >
    > “In actuality, the proof behind the rule (qa`ida) that “The basis
    in
    > things is indifference until the proof indicates prohibition” is a
    > hadith whose context was unquestionably about worship, namely:
    Should
    > we perform pilgrimage every year? When the questioner kept asking,
    > the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, replied: “Whatever Allah
    > Most High made halal it is halal, and whatever He made haram is
    > haram, and whatever He was silent about, it is a boon (`afwun), so
    > accept from Allah the boon He is giving you, for Allah certainly is
    > not going to forget anything.”
    >
    > I have searched for the context of Hajj and have failed to find it
    in
    > the Sunan. Could you kindly provide for me the takhrij of the
    context
    > being in Hajj?

    His, hafithhullah’s response:

    May Allah Most High bless you and yours also.

    Thank you for pointing this out. I also could not find a reference to the context that I gave. The correct hadith in the context of the question whether Hajj is due every year is not the one I initially gave but rather: “Leave me as long as I leave you. Those before you
    perished because they asked too many questions.” Muslim, al-Nasa’i,
    al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and Ahmad from Abu Hurayra.

    As for the specific context of the hadith of `afw, it is the consumption of or abstention from certain meats such as that of the frog (difda`), hedgehog (qunfudh), cheese and others – not worship.

    The nearest I saw to a contextualization of the latter hadith with Hajj was in Ibn `Abd al-Barr’s Istidhkar (4:241) where he uses the hadith of `afw in relation to the indifference of riding on top of a sacrificial animal in pilgrimage.

    Important also in this context is the hadith from Abu Tha`laba al-
    Khushani Jurthum ibn Nashir radya Allahu `anh, that the Messenger of Allah salla Allahu `alayhi wa-Sallama said: “Truly Allah Most High has imposed certain categorical obligations (inna Allaha farada fara’id), so do not lose them; He has put up certain absolute limits
    (wa-hadda hududan) so do not trespass them; He has imposed certain categorical prohibitions (wa-harrama ashya’a) so do not violate them; and He stayed silent concerning certain things as a mercy to you, not out of forgetfulness, so do not search them out.” Ibn Rajab said in
    Jami` al-`Ulum wal-Hikam (Arna’ut ed. p. 275): “A fair hadith narrated by al-Daraqutni and others.”

    Was-Salam,
    gibril

    ==end===

    The arguments forwarded prior to this suffice in proving our point. So this was an error by me, may Allah forgive you and I Amin. I certainly stand by what we I said in the previous posts, save for this contextualization.

    Was-Salam,

    Abul Layth

  89. Omar says:

    As salamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullah,

    Sidi Abul Layth, you have the patience of a Wali to put up with these repetitive moronic comments! I discovered a while ago some people are just veiled, no matter what you say the veil is there and nur cannot penetrate it, Allah is the Most Wise.

    The greatest proof against them is themselves! Look at those who have followed this manhaj for 5 years, 10 years… look at their (sorry) state. Then look at someone who pursued a true tariqa for even 1 year. If Sufism/Tasawwuf was batil the end result would not be someone who embodies so well the akhlaq of Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alayhi wasallam). I don’t know a single Wahabi who even comes close to the akhlaq of our Prophet (peace be upon him), and I’ve been in the company of their “Scholars”.

    Zen to Bud: You are a nutjob! May Allah protect the Ummah from the likes of you!

  90. IbnTaymiya says:

    All I got to say is that this hadra rock! Especially first couple of minues. Even though I’m Salafi :)
    They say that one who does bid’ah will have his actions rejected and this scares me from joining in, even though I’ve come across some decent sufi tariqas.

  91. IbnTaymiya says:

    sorry, forgot to link the hadra that rocks:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cGaECvx52c&feature=related

  92. Al Albani Al watchmaker says:

    great stuff above, but yea it seems like bida, since sheik Albani and bin baz gave fatwas against them so better we dont get into it, so i just decided to do this instead- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bC_QA2HOo , it rocks and the best thing is that no ‘salafi’ ulema said it was a bida that will take them to hellfire, so i m loving it! Enjoy :)

  93. Dawud Israel says:

    Bismillah

    To the “Ibn Taymiyah” brother above…visit Islamtoday.com–a KSA website–and in their fatawa they have said that bida does not mean a person is going to hell–many righteous people perform bida.
    Necessity vs. Sufficiency.

    Also, the ruling on Sufi tariqahs from that same website never states they are haram but mainly of the opinion that they are “superfluous” and more importantly, this is a “general” ruling, the case of individual tariqas varies and has yet to be researched conclusively by Salafi ulama.

  94. IbnTaymiya says:

    Brother Dawud Israel,
    I would like to talk (I mean) email with you regarding these topics of tasawwuf, tariqahs, etc. I liked your last comment above.

  95. Ibn Ahmad says:

    Brother Dawud Israel,
    I would like to talk (I mean) email with you regarding these topics of tasawwuf, tariqahs, etc. I liked your last comment above.

    Constructive communication. Beneficial networking. Maturity befitting of an adult. Masha’Allah! May Allah make it easy for you brothers.

  96. IbnTaymiya says:

    what do you mean by “superfluous” ?
    regarding sufi tariqahs.

  97. IbnTaymiya says:

    I just think that the Ash’ari/Sufis and the Salafis need to be more tolerant of each other and peacefully discuss and agree/disagree on issues without fighting, enmity, hatred and division. I mean we refer to the same people as sources, for cryin’ out loud :) e.g. Nawawi, IbnHajar, Sakhawi, Suyuti, IzzBinAbdusalam, BenDaqeeqAleed, (man, the Shafi’ites have some heavy hitters on their squad).
    Anyways…my theory is that “Wahhabism/Salafism” became an opponent of “Sufism” partly because when the “wahhabi” Da’wa started out of Najd as reactionary to combat all the Superstitions, talisman-use, fairytales, innovations, etc.. the legit Sufi sheikhs instead ignored this purpose and started bashing them.

  98. IbnTaymiya says:

    I know I’m bombarding yall with posts…but one more question:
    Why did Tariqas come into existence so late? Imam Ghazali wasn’t part of a tariqa. Neither were Junaid, AbuTalib Makki, Sahl alTustari, etc..

  99. yaser says:

    salam ‘alaykum saadat,

    i just appeared late on the scene. the tariqahs as formal entites did not come in for a little while just like the madhahib didn’t appear until a little while after the all stars faded from the scene. So just as Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Shafi’is students and followers began forming a madh-hab, the scholars who were with Abdul Qadir, Ahmad ar-Rifa’i and took the knowledge from them didn’t start having ‘tariqahs’ until those who crystalized and formalized the fields left. But mention of the word ‘tariq’ and concept of it being a tariq to Allah is found in the early narrations – of Junayd (and I believe Sahl). Wallahu a’lamu wa hasbiyahu wa huwa ni’mal wakeel.

  100. mustafa says:

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Akhi abul layth who was the first Imaam or Ulama that said it was ok to sit and make dhikr with the Name Allah repeatedly? Im trying to research the issue but I can seem to trace it back too far maybe you can help inshaallah

    Kind regards

    wasalaam

  101. laila says:

    arguing with salafies makes the heart hard

  102. Abul Layth says:

    arguing with salafies makes the heart hard

    Certainly true. May Allah bless you amin!

  103. From Zen to Islam says:

    Bismillah. Al-salamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Greetings, everyone. I am the one who posted several years ago. I take back all the words that I said against Tassawuf. Back then I was an ignorant and immature Talafi. However, I have now learned more and matured and God Almighty has guided me to the Sunnah. I am now a Hanafi Maturidi, alhamdulillah. Tassawuf is undoubtedly and indisputably an inseparable part of our Deen which is composed of Islam, Iman, Ihsan. Tassawuf is the Path which leads to Ihsan. Thank you very much and jazak Allahu khayr. Wal-salam. Fi aman Allah.

  104. From Zen to Islam says:

    Thank you very much, sir. I humbly request that you please delete the following old comments that I made back in 2008:

    From Zen to Islam says:
    June 24, 2008 at 5:17 am

    &

    From Zen to Islam says:
    June 26, 2008 at 6:58 am

    Thank you. Please also delete this comment that I am posting right now too after you finish deleting those old ones. I would truly appreciate it. Barak Allahu fik. Fi aman Allah.

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